alanjjohnstone
Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
I think many in the Labour Party hierarchy won't be for letting individual members vote for leader again in the future, either.
The forum is for discussion, Sympo, and the more the merrier, and especially if we aren't solely talking to the already converted. Several regular contributors are not members and often make valued comments.
As i said, what struck me was not the content which i will read later but the actual presentation which is suited for online circulation.Something our publications/internet committees may like to evaluate for any of our future pamphlets since it seems we may be a bit stuck in the past with our hard-copy print priority. Perhaps, designing for the web and the internet is more appropriate.
It was "immigration" perceptions…the scapegoats for everybody's misery…not facts or figures…not the expertshttp://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/25/hartlepool-eu-referendum-leave-voters-immigration-jobs“The main reason I voted to leave the EU was immigration,” said Tommy Docherty. “And that doesn’t make me a racist. There needs to be a cap on immigrants coming to this country because, as things stand, this country just can’t cope.” https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jun/25/view-wales-town-showered-eu-cash-votes-leave-ebbw-vale “There was only one word people had on their mind: immigration. They didn’t look at the facts at all.” Are there any immigrants in Ebbw Vale? “No! Hardly any. And the ones there are are all working, all contributing. It’s just … illogical. I just don’t think people looked at the facts at all.” It’s a town with almost no immigrants that voted to get the immigrants out.And the blame goes deeper than the Brexit…back to Cameron and his swarms of migrants and those Labourites like Straw and Blunkett who pandered to voters prejudices. And now it seems that to appease the Frankenstein monster they helped to create, the Labour Party are to throw in with the Tories and UKIP to tighten immigration laws. Once again in the broader interest of the working class, the SOYMB blog posted this todayhttp://socialismoryourmoneyback.blogspot.com/2016/06/brexit-so-be-it-we-get-it.html
A word of sanity from Ricky Gervais
Quote:Joking aside, Brexit won't make any difference. The rich will still be rich, the poor will still be poor, and we'll still blame foreigners.http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/ricky-gervais-brexit-eu-referendum-results-a7102451.html
Meel said
Quote:All the evidence suggests that Brexit was supported by the poor more than the rich, the uneducated more than the educated, the unemployed more than the employed, and by people with the least experience of immigration.I'm not so sure.Eastern England such as Boston etc where there are large numbers of migrant workers in the agricultural and food processing industries locals voted heavily fo leave. It is also a region where the claim that migrants are stealing jobs is the strongest. Scotland and NI are overall places of relatively low immigration and the main issue for voting remain seems not to have been immgration…But we have to accept a 40% figure (and that is quite large) in Scotland voted to leave and i'm guessing immigration was the main reason. NI leave vote i think reflects religious affiliations. But i am also reminded of this research from a few years ago that is worth raising again.
Quote:On rising racial prejudice she reported “that the group that recorded the biggest rise was white, professional men between the ages of 35 and 64, highly educated and earning a lot of money. Their attitudes may directly affect others as many will have managerial responsibilities".https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/may/27/-sp-racism-on-rise-in-britain?CMP=share_btn_tw
Gerard Batten, UKIP MEP, Brexit on steroids
Quote:“And regarding the “convoluted process of withdrawal” under Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty. I am totally opposed to that. We should get out very quickly, and the way that we can do that is just be repealing the 1973 European Communities Act; parliament would then be sovereign, all of the EU directives have been transposed into acts of parliament so there won’t be any chaos because they are still in place and we can repeal them over a period of two, three, or four years until we get rid of most of the EU legislation, except what we want to be left with…If we repealed the 1973 Act we could technically be out [of the EU] Monday morning – it depends on how quickly parliament can put it through. If we go down the Article 50 route it could take 2 years or it could take 10 years because this time period can be extended indefinitely.”Quote:"Rod, (is it ok to use this name?)"I always assumed his nom de plume was rodman as in angler but i stand to be corrected SP by his good self.
It also seems that the immediate fall-out from the result is not the expected implosion within the Tories who are not at all eager for a general election but in the Labour Party.http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36632539Once more we have heard the undertones of anti-immigration being expressed by political so-called leaders within Labour who are eager to follow the anti-foreigner sentiments of their traditional support rather than challenge those views at the price of losing votes to UKIP.
Quote:Corbyn accused Labour voters who backed Brexit because of concerns about EU migration of "lacking understanding" of the way migrants "enrich" the UK, prompting fury among MPs…His remarks prompted Labour MPs to accuse the leader of a "complete lack of understanding" of immigration while a shadow cabinet member said the speech makes his position as leader "untenable".I recall always being impressed by the WSPUS radio broadcasts…until i realised just how few listeners it attracted due to the profusion of stationsBut i think we can make a case for developing some form of internet radio station.Technically within our ability and a potential audience of many. Also a project that could involve all our companion parties.
Have you taken time to read this website's About Us."The SPGB and our companion parties in the WSM claims that there can be no state in a socialist society."A lot more of your unwarranted concerns are answered if you care to spend the time to read it.
Dave B
Quote:A lot of this will be superficially beneath the radar for a lot of us middleclass skilled workers on this forumNo, it was not beneath the radar for socialists. We were all painfully aware of that feeling from a sector of fellow workers.We simply lost the argument. I think the psychology of conspiracy theorists were at play. Disproving the arguments paradoxically leads to an entrenchment of them. Socialists well versed in the facts are treated with the same disdain as all those "experts" who were casually dismissed by the Leave camp.Meel is correct. It was all emotional. The EU vote "was a roar of anger". RL posted a short ode on the SOYMB blog that sums it all upThe Brexiteers, the Brexiteers,Have played upon on the people’s fears;But when their promises go lame,And there is no E.U. to blame,Who will they scapegoat for the tears? I am not surprised that the regions that voted for the EU were London and Scotland, regions who are not as xenophobic as other places. I was surprised by the Welsh vote – a region that has benefited from EU cash (and doing so well in the Euros)The blog has particularly concentrated on the issue of migrants and refugees. If the Party is to centre its future activities upon its constituency then it has to be aimed at the idea of world socialism. Even if it is a smaller audience, it is a more receptive one. We directly challenge our main adversaries and we appeal to those who are on the way of rejecting much of the mainstream ideas of sovereignty and nationalism.YMS has suggested Rule 25 online conference. Yet once more, i am suggesting that we subject the party as a whole to an extensive MOT, and the EU vote is just one aspect and topic of what we need to do to re-fashion our image and re-mold the Party's approach to politics.
