Cameron’s EU deal
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I don't that the politicians governing on behalf of the capitalist ruling class are ever again going to put an issue of vital importance to their masters to a vote of the working class. They won't make that mistake again.
I think many in the Labour Party hierarchy won't be for letting individual members vote for leader again in the future, either.
I lost my bet, but I was right about everything else. A national and global political and economic crisis. A rise in racist and xenophobic violence on the street. Everyone worse off with the prospect of worse to come.Cameron was right to resign – make the lame-brained aristos who whipped up the plebeian mob take ownership of the mess they've created. The thick working class will bear the costs of course – let's hope they don't start crying out for a strong leader to help them.As for this party, well I was right about that too. You've played a very minor role of course, but you have aspirations to play a bigger one and that makes you dangerous. Your anti-intellectualism and abstention from practical politics puts you very much in the same bracket as the thick working class (as one of your own members told me recently). You need to up your game and get serious.I rolled over my bet and have gambled that the outcome will be that we won't actually leave the EU at all because it is too dangerous and risky, as the political class are starting to realise. The democratic thing to do would be to ignore this plebiscite, for parliament to take control via our elected representatives, and take us out of this self-created hell.
A true leader imposes themselves on the masses, and is not elected by them. Elected political "leaders" are really the main salesmen for their particular causes.
rodmanlewis wrote:A true leader imposes themselves on the masses, and is not elected by them. Elected political "leaders" are really the main salesmen for their particular causes.A true 'leader' recognises and follows the fears and prejudices of the 'masses'…
See, you're not even able to recognise that at a time like this all your pish about "leaders" and the self directed activity of the masses is worthless shit, pathetic masturbation. The masses haven't made themselves worthy of a pay rise – how can they be worthy of self-emancipation!
If the next issue of the Socialist Standard has "sorry, we were wrong, please forgive us" on the cover ten I will forgive you.
stuartw2112 wrote:See, you're not even able to recognise that at a time like this all your pish about "leaders" and the self directed activity of the masses is worthless shit, pathetic masturbation. The masses haven't made themselves worthy of a pay rise – how can they be worthy of self-emancipation!What the working class have said is that their votes are for sale. The areas that resoundingly voted for against the EU are those that are not benmefitting, at all, and for whom it means nothing. If the capitalist class want to be in their free trade area, they are going to have to buy those areas off.The working class aren't thick, they voted their interest. South Wales, Birmingham, Sheffield, Middlesbrough: there's a theme emerging.
You have to believe they aren't, but come on, get real. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jun/25/view-wales-town-showered-eu-cash-votes-leave-ebbw-vale
stuartw2112 wrote:See, you're not even able to recognise that at a time like this all your pish about "leaders" and the self directed activity of the masses is worthless shit, pathetic masturbation. The masses haven't made themselves worthy of a pay rise – how can they be worthy of self-emancipation!Elitist arrogance.Politics has just got more interesting for the first time in decades and Stuart is crying into his muesli while praying for new line directions from his hollowed out zombie reformist leaders.
I will almost certainly be fine and my muesli will stay on the table. If only your anti-elitist arrogance held similar comfort for the poor and bewildered.
stuartw2112 wrote:I will almost certainly be fine and my muesli will stay on the table. If only your anti-elitist arrogance held similar comfort for the poor and bewildered.The 'poor and bewildered' find comfort in their own certainties, following and discarding leaders presently and do not need my help.
As I said before, and as I know other present members of the SPGB say too, the party should turn itself into a serious organisation. If it was serious, it wouldn't let the kind of stuff that is put on these forums go unchallenged. This was a party that used to take education seriously. Now any fool can say what they like, and the party's intellectual leaders say and do nothing. For shame.
stuartw2112 wrote:That they find comfort in their certainties is precisely the problem! It's yours as well.We will deal with that as we always have done with the plain unvarnished facts of the matter. You were the one who was a part of the problem. You were the one with the dodgy goods."The problem is not the EU .. it's capitalism". was our take.
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