stuartw2112
Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
You're too hard on yourself Alan! Is original thinking even possible? I'm a cut and paste artist too! Would be happy to discuss Marxism and Buddhism, though I'm no expert on the latter (or the former even!). Cheers
Hi again Alan,Your thinking doesn't strike me as any more inconsistent than my own or anyone else's! The force of the point I am making was first brought home to me in a debate between the SPGB and the Adam Smith Institute. For me, the ASI won that debate because neither the SPGB speaker, nor anyone in the audience, would deal with the ASI's forceful point, which was, basically, that you can't compare apples with oranges. EITHER you can compare socialism and capitalism as ideal philosophic constructs of what societies should be like OR you can compare actually existing or historical societies that call or think of themselves as socialist or capitalist. But you can't compare an ideal socialist system with an actually existing capitalist one. The former is bound to come out smelling of roses in comparison with the latter since the former can magic away the difficulties that are inevitable when abstract ideas face an infinitely complex reality.The SPGB missed a trick in that debate since Marx's great triumph in Capital was precisely to show that an ideal capitalism working perfectly would still give rise to the problems we see in reality. Marx might have been wrong about that, but that was the tack to take with the ASI.LBird: I probably broadly agree with you, at least on the limitations of "materialism" and on the similarites between Marxian/Hegelian thought and that that tends to get thought of as mystical, eg Buddhism.Cheers
My ignorance of Buddhist history is just as complete as yours Alan, so can't help you I'm afraid! My point was not to defend Buddhism or attack socialism, merely to point out an inconsistency in your thinking. If you judge Buddhist economics or Buddhist anything by what people or societies who call themselves Buddhist actually do, then that is fair enough, but it's not a standard you apply to your own ideas.
"Forget the flowery analysis of theology and look at the actual manifestion of reality" – a very sensible, you might even say "Buddhist", way of looking at things Alan. No doubt "Buddhist economics" as it manifests in reality is a complete disaster. You might say the same for "socialist economics" – or socialist political practice even….
You see, that last sentence didn't even make sense. A deadly serious issue with world-shaking consequences and already the bewildered are reaching, not for their books, or for dictionaries, but for the forum rule sheet. I pity you but I have more important things to do. If the party ever gets round to serious discussion again, I'll see you then. But for now, you can wave a thankful goodbye and get back to your comforting delusions.
As I said before, and as I know other present members of the SPGB say too, the party should turn itself into a serious organisation. If it was serious, it wouldn't let the kind of stuff that is put on these forums go unchallenged. This was a party that used to take education seriously. Now any fool can say what they like, and the party's intellectual leaders say and do nothing. For shame.
I will almost certainly be fine and my muesli will stay on the table. If only your anti-elitist arrogance held similar comfort for the poor and bewildered.
You have to believe they aren't, but come on, get real. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jun/25/view-wales-town-showered-eu-cash-votes-leave-ebbw-vale
If the next issue of the Socialist Standard has "sorry, we were wrong, please forgive us" on the cover ten I will forgive you.
See, you're not even able to recognise that at a time like this all your pish about "leaders" and the self directed activity of the masses is worthless shit, pathetic masturbation. The masses haven't made themselves worthy of a pay rise – how can they be worthy of self-emancipation!
I lost my bet, but I was right about everything else. A national and global political and economic crisis. A rise in racist and xenophobic violence on the street. Everyone worse off with the prospect of worse to come.Cameron was right to resign – make the lame-brained aristos who whipped up the plebeian mob take ownership of the mess they've created. The thick working class will bear the costs of course – let's hope they don't start crying out for a strong leader to help them.As for this party, well I was right about that too. You've played a very minor role of course, but you have aspirations to play a bigger one and that makes you dangerous. Your anti-intellectualism and abstention from practical politics puts you very much in the same bracket as the thick working class (as one of your own members told me recently). You need to up your game and get serious.I rolled over my bet and have gambled that the outcome will be that we won't actually leave the EU at all because it is too dangerous and risky, as the political class are starting to realise. The democratic thing to do would be to ignore this plebiscite, for parliament to take control via our elected representatives, and take us out of this self-created hell.
Yes, good points, I accept all that. I am calm, and I shall carry on campaigning with Labour In, but the worry is that a Brexit win will, as you've said, give a boost to racism and xenophobia, if nothing worse. Still, nothing new to add. See you on the other side of the result. I have a bet with Richard Headicar that Remain will win, which I expect to win, but we'll see! Cheers
