stuartw2112
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I was just trying to find something nice to say! Votes for Remain are counted, and weigh against those for Brexit. Votes for "Jez for PM" or whatever it is you're saying to scrawl across it aren't. Simples.
Why vote for what you don't want and get it?If you want to abstain Matt, that's up to you, but in effect it is a vote for what you don't want – a UK Plc that is even worse than it is now for workers.
Be nice to end on a note of agreement – I prefer your abtaining position to that of the dreaming Lexiteers. Useful idiots for UKIP.
Yes. The choice on the table is between the elite status quo, or potentially extremely damaging upheaval while a new, more reactionary elite is formed. That's the choice. Abstain if you like, but abstaining is a choice with consequences too.
Well, given the alternative, we want Cameron to remain as PM! Not all Brexiteers are bigots and xenophobia of course. But all bigots and xenophobia will be voting for Brexit. Reason enough to vote Remain!
Thought you might enjoy this story from your ex comrade Dave:https://negcap.wordpress.com/2016/06/20/delivering-leaflets-for-dave/
I'm not the only one who deep in his heart thinks it is shameful. The editor of your journal said on this forum recently that the Lexit campaign was shameful. It is. So is abstaining, and for the same reasons.
Perhaps in the debate generally but not (I don't think, unless I slippery slipped up myself) from myself. What will inevitably result from Brexit is uncertainty – uncertainty we could well do without, a gamble for (as you say) the airy utopian dreams of the petit bourgeoisie. In this debate, give me the Big Bourgeoisie (and the labour movement) anyday.
One more from the authoritative and always sensible John Kayhttp://www.johnkay.com/2016/06/01/simple-arithmetic-shows-why-basic-income-schemes-cannot-work
There's been loads about this in the media recently (due to the Switzerland vote). To switch hats, here's a strong case against. I think she's right that when people advocate it they talk in vague terms about how wonderful everything will be and tend to ignore some hard realities (the worst from a socialist point of view being that a basic income introduced as promised will make the poorest worse off not better):http://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-06-06/universal-basic-income-is-ahead-of-its-time-to-say-the-least
Haha, very good! I don't know what makes me more nervous: polling the proles about Brexit, or polling your members! (Only joking.)
Perhaps you're right about that, but the labour movement is not so sure: it is broadly for Remain and most economists agree that Brexit will make us all worse off. The trouble with the position you describe is that, because you take a totalising view of what capitalism and the ruling class interest is (as you argue here, even working class interests are in the ruling class interest), just about everything that goes on in the world is deemed a dispute of no importance. Your commitment to voting for pro-working-class reforms isn't worth the paper it's written on!
Is this the place to discuss the In/Out referendum? If so, I must say I think the party's stand on this is wrong and shameful, even from its own point of view. One of the key issues in this referendum is workers rights at work. The EU guarantees basic protections; the Outers promise to tear them up. Hence there is a clear working class interest in the poll (and that's not even to go into all the other issues, where working class interests are also at stake). In calling for abstention, the SPGB is going against its own declared position on supporting reforms in the working class interest. I hope all members will consider rebelling against the party and voting for Remain.
