h.moss@swansea.ac.uk
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On a connected topic, a new book that looks well worth reading and is already being much praised:
How did Christianity, starting out as a minor offshoot of Judaism, grow into an international faith that shaped the world as we know it? Rome’s Age of Revolution corrects the triumphalist narrative that the Christian message was so persuasive, and indeed superior, that people converted in huge numbers, abandoning their pagan beliefs, thereby turning a small persecuted sect into the state religion of the Roman Empire. Tim Whitmarsh shows that Christianity would never have succeeded if it had not taken advantage of the infrastructure and culture of the Roman Empire; in turn the new religion was indelibly shaped and transformed by Roman beliefs and ideas, especially those circulating in the Greek-speaking, or Hellenistic, eastern parts of the empire. This radical transformation, Tim argues, can only be described as a revolution. The consequences are with us to this day:
Rome’s Age of Revolution. Augustus, Empire and the Making of Christianity
by
Tim Whitmarsh
Penguin 2026‘Howard, I would say that it is more than a distraction for some people, rather than many people.’
Fair enough, Bijou Drains, I accept that not every football fan (including me) is a fanatic.
“In conclusion, yes, football does provide a distraction from the grim reality of capitalism. So does a walk in the park, a trip to the pub, a cup of tea with an old friend, pampering a pet, watching subsidised theatre, a quick “roll in the hay” with a consenting adult, etc. Should we abstain from these activities as well? Wez says of football that “football as giving us ‘hope and enjoyment’ is testament to its role as distraction, What’s wrong with the occasional distraction, the odd bit of hope and enjoyment? Feck knows we need it.” Sorry, Bijou Drains, football is more than ‘a bit of distraction for many people. See: https://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/socialist-standard/2020s/2025/no-1452-august-2025/life-and-times-football-is-our-life/
Interesting discussion. I entirely agree with the idea of a younger and older mix of children. My own son sort of had that being home educated for most of his early years and often mixing with adults during the day and with others kids after they came home from school.
‘I’m sure if you stick to these basic guidelines you will not only be able to glean unfavourable comment on this forum, if you put the hard yards in you will soon be able to upset close family members during social gatherings at the drop of a hat, be shunned by your work colleagues at staff nights out and generally considered as an all round grumpy old bastard. It worked for me, I’m sure it will work for you.’
I love it.
As a vegan myself, I can assure BJ that good quality non-leather shoes are readily purchaseable. I’ve been wearing them for years. But should I be offended that no one has picked me up and said anything scathing (nay personally insulting) on my comments in this debate? Anyway I’m looking forward to Bill Martin’s Friday night zoom talk on ‘Football and Socialism’this Friday (I think anyway – it got cancelled last week due to a technical hitch). I’ll be interested to hear his take and also of course the discussion it gives rise to. See you all there, I hope.
There is no doubt that football promotes rivalries between groups and individuals and is an instrument of tribalism, sometimes grotesque in its manifestations. It is an integral part of the money/profit system and of the distraction mechanism that is the so-called entertainment (or ‘bread and circuses’) industry. To see the paroxysms of fans at the current world cup matches is both sad and sickening and a show of how alienated people are from their own lives and capabilities. And this also applies, if to a lesser extent, at lower levels of the game, right down to park football for kids with the ‘performances’ it stimulates in some of the watching parents. However, it’s not all one-sided. I’m actually a football fan myself, I always have been and I do regard it as a ‘beautiful game’ for the skill it encourages in those who play it – and that despite the often ugly context in which that skill is practised. So what’s wrong is the spirit in which football takes place, mimicking and reinforcing as it does the spirit of the system it exists in. But, as I’ve implied, that spirit is less present in the game at a lower level, where there’s a good deal of volunteering, community activity and social connection, which socialists should see as positive. In any case pointless our getting hot under the collar about all this, which ever way we look at it.
Not quite the same, but what about this?
“If the far right are against the EU’s obsession with war with Russia, are they not then preferable, as Orban was in Hungary?”
Isn’t this taking you to a strange place?
