World Cup
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CDM – Understanding the nature of capitalist culture is important if we are to counter it. Football is the world’s most popular team sport with fanatical fans. Why is this and why is it so often associated with reactionary politics? Millions of young (mainly) men attend weekly matches when their money and time would be much better spent on political activity. Marx had little to say on this ‘culture industry’ but the fact is that it constitutes both the greatest global distraction and, in my perspective, cultivates anti-socialist tribalism.
Thank you, Paula, no need to apologise. As Wez made his final points, I will make, hopefully, post my final thoughts and leave the posting to other areas of discussion.
A few points:Wez – “Mussolini made football the totem of Fascism and invested and centralized the game which, as a result, won two world cups in the ’30s.”
Whilst I know that Mussolini put investment into Italian football, to say that as a result of this Italy won the World Cup is a massive simplification and as usual Wez has used a sophism to prove a point. That Mussolini put in investment is true, that Italy won two world cups is also true, however to say that one was as a result of the other, that there was a direct cause and effect between the two is far from the full story. Other very much more important factors in the Italian victories, in my opinion, were:
All of the 4 of “Home Nations” refused to take part, because they felt that “The Home Internationals” series were far more prestigious and important. Whilst this might seem a bit jingoistic, the attendances at the home internationals were far higher than the The World Cup by a significant margin. For example the Scotland/England match of 1931 drew an attendance of 136,259 whilst the World cup final of 1934 attracted 50,000 and the 1938 Final attracted a mere 45,000. Taking into account that the Home Internationals were annual events and the World cup took place every 4 years, the Home Nations maybe had a point. The absence of what were at that time four of the best teams in the world at that time, may well have been more important than Mussolini’s patronage. (for Perspective, and I’m sure Paula may actually like that I made this point, Scotland were unbeaten against none British Island teams from May 1931, until May 1947).
Another factor that, in my opinion, which was far more important than Mussolini’s patronage was the long standing tradition of the Italian football International teams to include non Italian players in their teams 7 South Americans were included in the 1934 WC squads and 4 South American or other Europeans in 1938
Probably even more importantly than the points made so far and the impact of Mussolini’s patronage for the Italian victories were the withdrawals of practically all South American nations for both of the tournaments. Only Argentina and Brazil attended the 1934 tournament (the holders Uruguay, Peru and Chile all refused to be part of that tournament) and only Brazil attended the 1938 tournament, this was due to a huge fall out between European football and S American football, the S Americans thought that the tournament should alternate between Europe and S America.
Therefore to say there was a simple cause and effect is, as so often with Wez’s comments, a massive simplification.
If it is possible to condemn Football as the “sickest, most racist, most atavistic and most violent, culture” on the basis of strong support from Mussolini, then surely the same should be said about Rugby. Mussolini rebranded rugby union as palla ovale (“oval ball”), deciding it was an evolution of the Roman game harpastum. The game was used as a vehicle for Fascist unity, and by 1927 rugby union had its own propaganda committee. However, Mussolini also turned to volata, a kind of handball. Volata never caught on and in 1933 the effort was officially abandoned. After the decline of the volata project, his supporters turned back to rugby in the years leading up to the Second World War as an alternative to soccer, which they saw as an effete English influence.
Rugby Union was also heavily supported by the Semi fascistic Petain regime, which allowed the French RU to confiscate all of the assets of the French Rugby League, as Rugby League was seen as a Left Wing sport. To date no compensation has been paid to the French RL which is a cause of a bitter dispute between the two codes which continues to this day. Another authoritarian regime, the one under Ceaușescu in Romania, also did a lot to support and promote Rugby Union as part of his regime’s attempt to use sport as a political tool
Also if football has no place in our culture because of the fact that some fascists groups have attempted to use and manipulate the sport, then Theatre and film must also have no place. Under Benito Mussolini, theatre was co-opted as a crucial tool for state propaganda. The regime aggressively promoted nationalist values, militarism, and historical parallels between Fascist Italy and the Roman Empire. Mussolini even co-authored several historical dramas himself to popularise his ideology and elevate the “new fascist man”, whilst Hitler and Goebbels use of film and drama needs no further illustration.
Moving on to the old chestnut of bread and circuses. Juvenal originally used the term to describe the process by which emperors handed out grain and paid for or subsidised expensive circuses as an attempt to bribe the populous into acquiescence and to gain political power. Apart from pointing out that professional football is not in any meaningful way subsided and that I have yet to attend any football match where I have been given grain, or indeed any kind of food for free, a more apt comparison to 1st Century Rome is the subsidies given to “high art” Opera, Ballet, Theatre, etc. All of those cultural activities are heavily subsidised by the state often as a result of lobbying by more affluent sections of society as a means to buy support for the influence those sections bring. These are the real bread and circuses. Does Wez think Socialists should shun these areas of the art, refuse to accept the enjoyment those subsidies provide?
In conclusion, yes, football does provide a distraction from the grim reality of capitalism. So does a walk in the park, a trip to the pub, a cup of tea with an old friend, pampering a pet, watching subsidised theatre, a quick “roll in the hay” with a consenting adult, etc. Should we abstain from these activities as well? Wez says of football that “football as giving us ‘hope and enjoyment’ is testament to its role as distraction, What’s wrong with the occasional distraction, the odd bit of hope and enjoyment? Feck knows we need it.
American ( USA ) football is one of the most dangerous sports, and it was proven by a Neurologist who almost got killed because he opposed and denounced that business; it was like opposing the Italian or Russian mafia. Many young people have died and continue dying due to brain damages provoked by that so-called sport, but it generates a lot of profits for the investors. They do not care about scientific research, and fanatics do not care either
“In conclusion, yes, football does provide a distraction from the grim reality of capitalism. So does a walk in the park, a trip to the pub, a cup of tea with an old friend, pampering a pet, watching subsidised theatre, a quick “roll in the hay” with a consenting adult, etc. Should we abstain from these activities as well? Wez says of football that “football as giving us ‘hope and enjoyment’ is testament to its role as distraction, What’s wrong with the occasional distraction, the odd bit of hope and enjoyment? Feck knows we need it.” Sorry, Bijou Drains, football is more than ‘a bit of distraction for many people. See: https://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/socialist-standard/2020s/2025/no-1452-august-2025/life-and-times-football-is-our-life/
The same situation is applicable to baseball too, which is very popular in the USA and the Caribbean islands.
The baseball players are like gods admired by everybody because businesses have turned them into heroes and because they have money, and many young people want to leave school in order to become baseball players. Some are called the king of baseball, and it is also a sign of patriotism.
Some have killed women or sexually abused them, but they are pardoned because they are heroes, and they can buy the court system, and the baseball club pay their lawyers and their fines.
Some have obtained doctorate degrees without any academic education, while people who have really obtained an academic degree do not receive the same honorific distinction.
Sports in our society are more than entertainment, it is bread and circuses for the working class, a profitable business for the capitalist class, and a tool to alienate the working class.
Going to a stadium is like going to a Roman circus or a colosseum; it is also a dangerous place because many fanatics like to fight against each other, and some structures have been partially destroyed
Some structures have collapsed due to the weight of the fans, and the emotions and fanaticism have motivated them to jump and have produced cracks in the columns, and they have fallen like pancakes.
As William Morris said, in a socialist society we are going to be artists, because arts and sports are going to be viewed from a different perspective and the concept of profits will not exist, and we are going to have free time to practice arts, craftsmanship and sports with our family and relatives.
” Bijou Drains, football is more than ‘a bit of distraction for many people.”.
Howard, I would say that it is more than a distraction for some people, rather than many people.
There are lots of people who have “obsessional” involvement with certain things, but manage to have other things in their lives, including politics. My brother is absolutely obsessed with the rock band “The Who”, he has recordings and books galore, he has posters and books everywhere. He is also a talented musician has a collection of guitars, is a guitar geek and plays in a band and has a season ticket at St James’ Park. Despite these “more than distractions” he manages to be the secretary of his local Labour Party, heavily involved with the retired members branch of his union and be an active trustee for a credit union.
As well as being an active Socialist, I am also a keen bridge player, attend ballroom dancing sessions regularly, make my own sausages, black puddings, white puddings and cure bacon (sorry to upset the vegans, but I do have a fantastic recipe for vegan haggis if any one wants it), am a keen cook and am starting to brew my own beer. This is along side being a keen follow of both the soccer variety of football and Gaelic football (please, please, please can Mayo finally win the All Ireland on Sunday)
You see it is possible to watch and play football and do other things and I am not alone in this. At one time I played football in an 11 a side team that contained 4 party members and 2 sympathisers. This involved training once a week a playing one at the weekend. This was all undertaken whilst all being at that time very active socialists.
I know fellow socialists who have lots of other hobbies and distractions. In my time in the party I have come across many members who are keen and very talented musicians, members who love crosswords, members who are keen card players, a collector of antique books, at least one who was an extremely talented table tennis player, a member who dances Argentinian Tango properly (which is bloody hard), a model railway fan and TM said his father had a passion for Rugby.
There is an element of tribalism attached to some parts of football support, that is undeniable, but even at last week’s World Cup final you could see lots of areas of the stadium where Spanish and Argentinian fans were mixed together. If you go to most football grounds in England on before and after matches, you will likely see fans from both sides mingling together and drinking in the same pubs. There are notable exceptions, such as Derby matches, etc. But as a general rule this is now the case across England.
TM said his father had a passion for Rugby.
He was a founder member of the Grasshoppers rugby club in Twickenham. He made some SPGBers out of a few players there too.
‘Howard, I would say that it is more than a distraction for some people, rather than many people.’
Fair enough, Bijou Drains, I accept that not every football fan (including me) is a fanatic.
From the wiki page
FC St. Pauli is considered one of the most left-wing football clubs in the world, with a long-standing commitment to anti-fascism, anti-racism, anti-sexism, and LGBTQ+ rights. The club’s culture is closely linked to the St. Pauli district of Hamburg, an area historically associated with alternative lifestyles and the red-light district, the Reeperbahn. Its distinct political identity began to develop in the mid-1980s, when local residents, squatters, and left-wing activists rallied behind the team in response to a growing far-right presence among rival Hamburger SV supporters, establishing St. Pauli as a refuge for fans opposed to right-wing extremism in German football. The club operates under a democratic, member-driven structure, and its fans actively engage in political and social causes, including support for refugees, marginalised groups, and local community initiatives.
The skull and crossbones, or Jolly Roger, was adopted in the late 1980s after a local punk singer, Doc Mabuse, displayed the flag at a match. Originally a symbol of the club’s underdog status, it became associated with St. Pauli’s anti-establishment values. By the end of the 1980s, attendances at Millerntor Stadium increased significantly, aided by the club’s promotion from the third division to the Bundesliga in 1988.
St. Pauli emphasises inclusivity and social responsibility, and these principles are central to both its operations and its fan culture. Fans frequently display banners opposing fascism, racism, homophobia, and sexism, while the club operates under a democratic, membership-driven structure that allows supporters to vote on major decisions. In 1989, St. Pauli fans staged a boycott that successfully blocked plans to integrate the stadium into a sports dome featuring a hotel and shopping centre, reinforcing the club’s commitment to prioritising social and political values over financial gain. Throughout the 1990s and 2000s, St. Pauli formalised its political commitments; on 28 October 1991, at the football club’s annual general meeting, the decision was made to ban neo-Nazis from the stadium and to make anti-fascism club policy. The club also promotes multicultural engagement and grassroots activism, supporting refugees, marginalised youth, and local squatter communities. It has hosted initiatives such as the FIFI Wild Cup, an alternative to the 2006 World Cup for nations not recognised by FIFA, and during the European refugee crisis of the mid-2010s, the club allowed refugees to stay overnight at the Millerntor Stadium and supported fundraising efforts for organisations assisting migrants in the Mediterranean. St. Pauli has also acted in response to fan protests over sexism. In 2002, advertisements for the men’s magazine Maxim were removed from the Millerntor-Stadion due to their depictions of women. In 2011, the club banned lap dancers from performing for guests in a corporate suite belonging to a local lap dance club, following complaints from supporters. These actions, along with the club’s broader social and political initiatives, have contributed to the establishment of over 400 official supporter clubs worldwide.
TM said his father had a passion for Rugby.
He was a founder member of the Grasshoppers rugby club in Twickenham. He made some SPGBers out of a few players there too.
Another comrade who was involved in this club:
But of course rugby is not the same as soccer.
Paula and others – I didn’t notice much ‘joy’ of the game when England lost to Argentina – more like anger and recrimination!
Both football and rugby descend from ancient Celtic games (with Asian parallels – such as polo) whereby the head of an enemy was bound in leather and kicked/thrown about. In Mongolia the nomad clans still do a version of polo using the carcass of a yak, which would once have been the body/head of a human captive.
Boxing also produces brain damage in some cases, where the fight was to the death of the opponent.
The Italian-American Mafia essentially controlled professional boxing from the 1930s through the early 1960s. This era of total monopoly was orchestrated primarily by the Lucchese crime family soldier Frankie Carbo (known as the “Czar of Boxing”) and his partner Frank “Blinky” Palermo, who ran the International Boxing Club (IBC).
The cartel fixed fights, extorted managers, and dictated exactly who could fight for world titles. How the Mob Took Over: The Mafia used systemic corruption to monopolise the sport, implementing strict control tactics: The International Boxing Club (IBC): The mob used the IBC as a front organisation.
It controlled promotional rights, major arenas (including Madison Square Garden), and lucrative television contracts. The “Mob Tax”: If an independent manager wanted their fighter to get a title shot, they had to secretly surrender a 50% stake in the fighter’s earnings or contract to Carbo.Controlled Matchmaking: Fighters who refused to sign with mob-controlled managers were blacklisted.
Legendary fighters like Archie Moore were kept away from title shots for over a decade because they refused to cooperate with organised crime. Fixed Fights: Matches were routinely thrown to maximise gambling profits or to artificially build up a marketable contender.Famous Examples of Mob Interference: Several historic boxing figures were deeply entangled in the Mafia’s web, willingly or unwillingly: Primo Carnera: The 1933 Heavyweight Champion’s career was entirely manufactured by mobsters like Owney Madden. Carnera, a naive giant, genuinely believed his wins were real, unaware his handlers were bribing and threatening his opponents.
He retired with virtually no money left to show for his fame. Jake LaMotta: The famous “Raging Bull” was forced to throw a fight against Billy Fox in 1947. In exchange for diving, the mob finally granted LaMotta the world middleweight title shot he had earned years prior. Sonny Liston: Liston’s contract was heavily controlled by Blinky Palermo and St. Louis mob boss John Vitale. Widespread suspicion of mob fixing still surrounds Liston’s losses to Muhammad Ali (then Cassius Clay) in 1964 and 1965. The Downfall: The Mafia’s stranglehold on the sport came to an end in the early 1960s due to two major developments: Kefauver Hearings: U.S. Senator Estes Kefauver launched a massive congressional investigation into organised crime in boxing.
High-profile testimonies, including Jake LaMotta admitting to throwing a fight, exposed the IBC’s corruption. Federal Prosecution: In 1961, federal prosecutors successfully convicted Frankie Carbo and Blinky Palermo of extortion and conspiracy. Carbo was sentenced to 25 years in prison, effectively dismantling the shadow syndicate that ruled the ring.
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