Bijou Drains
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Hi L Bird
Sorry for late reply, so as you agree with my summary of your view that all socially produced theory should be subject to democratic vote, can I pose you a question.If, in a socialist society, a vote was held re Marx’s view of the social production of theories (which by definition must be a socially produced theory) was held and the vote rejected Marx’s theories, would you subsequently also reject those theories also, knowing that not to do so would be anti democratic and anti socialist?
So just to clarify, L Bird, for those of us who haven’t been following this thread particularly closely, your view is that Marxist theory states that all science is social produced and that it therefore follows that as it is socially produced it, alongside all theoretical approaches, should be subject to democracy, and not to follow the outcome of that democratic decision would not only be anti democratic it would be anti socialist?
Was talking to a trotskyist mate of mine at the weekend who was incandescent at the fact that Trump wouldn’t accept the election result. I asked him if the same thing should apply to elections to constituent assemblies and he produced the usual, oh well that was different, it was a moving landscape, a few mumbles about capitalist elections, smashing the state and then went strangely quiet.
Rodshaw, The cynic in me thinks that perhaps the impact of no crowd at Man United having an impact on the results for them, might have more to do with the more neutral performance of referees, rather than their players losing the backing of the crowd.
I know players often say the crowd can lift them, but perhaps the impact is more mixed, you often hear whispers that certain players are brilliant in training, but find it difficult in front of a crowd. It might make for an interesting season, as presumably the players who are most highly priced are those, who to quote numerous football punters “can produce the goods on the big occasions” there might be a bit of a levelling out of teams.
It’s not just the crowd who add to home advantage though, familiarity with surroundings must also help, subconsciously you must be using less cognitive energy in familiar surroundings, than you would in non-familiar surroundings. I know from my illustrious career in the Newcastle and District Welfare League Division 2, there was still an advantage in being on your own turf, and it wasn’t the one man and his dog watching that provided it!
I would have thought that certain clubs (Sunderland for example 😀 😀 ) would be quite familiar with playing in practically empty home stadiums.
With a synopsis which starts like this……….
“InterReflections, the first of a trilogy, is an experimental, social commentary film. Structurally, the work is mixed-genre, combining three mutual timelines, with aspects of documentary, horror, science fiction satire and more. Inspired by the avant-garde tradition of impressionistic abstraction, challenging convention, the 2 hr and 45 min work is grounded in a distinct sociological perspective surrounding the subject of public health and human well-being.”
………….I get the feeling that I’d rather eat my own scrotum than watch this film.
Judging that photo against similar ones from Rock/Pop concerts or football matches, it is clear that the total number of people is nowhere near 100,000, never mind a million.
If you look at this photo of Woodstock, which had an estimated 400,000 there you can see how few there were in comparison.
https://www.thecurrent.org/feature/2018/08/09/today-in-music-history-woodstock-begins
If you look at pictures of the 1923 White Horse Cup final, you can see that the numbers there (about 150,000) or this picure of Hampden Park as it was (about 65,000) to see that the amount at the Trump rally was maybe 25,000 at most.
To put into perspective Blyth Spartans got a bigger crowd for the FA cup 5th Round tie against Wrexham in 1978. A rally like that is hardly going to bring the US state machine crashing to its knees.
Leon – You display (not for the first time) your ignorance, when you state “It’s hard to compare Marx and Lenin. Marx was an academic and theorist above all else”
Perhaps a good starting point for your education would be a brief read of the article below from. Although limited and lacking real depth, it might be a good starting point for you to develop your knowledge of the real work of Karl Marx (which is clearly also limited and lackig real depth)
https://www.britannica.com/biography/Karl-Marx/Role-in-the-First-International#ref412092
Do you think that’s where “The Donald” gets his Barnet done, Adam? If it is, he wants to ask for his money back, ‘cos he’s fooling nobody, the baldy bastard.
LT “the pseudo socialists on here would have prefered another 4 years of Trump”
actually, Bonny lad, the REAL SOCIALISTS on here, don’t give a flying fuck which capitalist politician is presented as being in charge of capitalism in the USA, we all KNOW that capitalism is in charge all over the world and we won’t rest until a society of common ownership, democratic control and free access is established. You are welcome to play your silly game of follow the leader, but don’t expect revolutionary socialists to play the same, stupid game.
Watching Fox News (it’s half time in the Newcastle match) and it looks like even Murdoch is jumping the sinking Trump ship.
LT – “Btw, change comes inch by inch, not by revolution.”
well at least we have a Leninist admitting that they oppose revolutionary action, and prefer a gradualist approach. Or perhaps he’s got Bernstein mixed up with Bronstein, that’s all we need a dyslexic Trot
AJ – Biden is a one-term president
To be fair Alan, at 78 later this month, that might not be his biggest concern, even if he gets to that point, 👿 👿
I don’t think the BBC and others will give him the same coverage as a recent actor.
You can understand the coverage given to a recently deceased actor, after all Bobby Ball was a legend
LT, if I had £10 for every false prediction I had heard from Trotskyists over the last 40 years, I would be able to retire comfortably, instead of having to drag my aged bones out to bloody work every week.
Beginning with predictions of the development of mass “marxist” Labour Party in the 1980s, ( I remember being in Militant HQ when Benn lost the Labout deputy leader vote and being told that this was a high water mark for the right in Labour Party by one the inner sanctum of their leadership) the collapse of British Capitalism after defeat in the Falklands (who can forget the SWP with the heading The Malvinas es Argentinas on the front of their paper and Tony Cliff and his mob supporting the Fascist Galtieri) and how the miner’s strike was going to lead to the British Revolution, etc. etc. The list is ongoing.
With the number of Trotskyist internationals and parties world wide, you’d think the odds are they would finally get one prediction right, but so far no sign of that.
I think the biggest service the Trostksyist collective could do for the working class, is to get all of the different Trotskyist parties to start giving individual horse racing tips, then we wouldl know exactly which horses to avoid!!
