American election

May 2024 Forums General discussion American election

Viewing 15 posts - 181 through 195 (of 626 total)
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  • #208924
    LeonTrotsky
    Participant

    Wanna-be fascist leader Trump has now told his brown shirt stooges that he has no plans to concede even if the path to victory is blocked.  Those claiming that Trump represents labour are fascists trying to portray themselves as socialists.

    #208925
    alanjjohnstone
    Keymaster

    This election is certainly making good drama, much more exciting than the boring debates did, and got all the makings of a future movie.

     

    #208926
    robbo203
    Participant

    Wanna-be fascist leader Trump has now told his brown shirt stooges that he has no plans to concede even if the path to victory is blocked.  Those claiming that Trump represents labour are fascists trying to portray themselves as socialists.

    LT

    I dont  think anything is going to come of this.  Wild and fanciful speculations on the part of some  on the Left of a “fascist” coup by Trump are going prove completely unfounded.   He may double down on the threat of litigation in some states but he is increasingly looking like he is finished and defeated.   I think the CNN anchor person, Anderson Cooper, put it in a nutshell:

    “That is the President of the United States, the most powerful person in the world, and we see him like an obese turtle on his back flailing in the hot sun, realising his time is over.”

    (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/newslondon/cnn-anchor-anderson-cooper-calls-donald-trump-an-obese-turtle-flailing-in-the-hot-sun-in-brutal-take-down/ar-BB1aKkAy?ocid=msedgntp)

    As we speak  more and more prominent members of the Republic Party are distancing themselves from Trump appalled by his demented and unsubstantiated ravings of widespread electoral fraud.  Barring some unexpected miraculous turn of events the Trump regime is over.   Its history.

     

    The problem now for all those Leftist who urged us – unlike the WSM  – to vote Biden as the supposed “less evil”  is  – how are they are going to reconcile this with the fact that we are almost certainly going to have in place a thoroughly obnoxious new capitalist administration headed by Biden that will screw over the workers just as ruthlessly and cynically as the previous Trump administration did.

     

    Those leftists who fell for the phony  “lesser evil” argument are now going to find their credibility  much diminished once they start whining about the very regime that they had urged us to vote for!

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 6 months ago by robbo203.
    #208928
    LeonTrotsky
    Participant

    Those leftists who fell for the phony “lesser evil” argument are now going to find their credibility much diminished once they start whining about the very regime that they had urged us to vote for!

    If you think Trump is better than Biden or even equal to Biden, then you haven’t been paying attention over the last 4 years.

    Btw, change comes inch by inch, not by revolution, by plucking the capitalist bird one feather at a time.  Sometimes it’s two steps forward, one step back.  We just had 4 steps back with the orange menace.

     

     

    #208929
    LeonTrotsky
    Participant

    Steve Bannon, Trump’s former chief fascist advisor, is talking about beheading Fauci and Wray for “not getting with the program”.

    #208930
    robbo203
    Participant

    If you think Trump is better than Biden or even equal to Biden, then you haven’t been paying attention over the last 4 years.

     

    LT

     

    It is not a question of worse of whether Trump is better or worse than the forthcoming Biden regime.  You are completely missing the point here.

     

    Even if a future  Biden regime is marginally better than the previous Trump regime it will screw the workers over big time.  In fact this is one of the reasons why Trumpist populism become as prominent as it did (and this wont  disappear with the disappearance of Trump himself).   Workers,  particularly those in the American rustbelt ,  felt they had been badly let down by the  “Establishment” and  the Democrats. Trump cynically played his anti-establishment card for all that  it was worth and it worked up to a point precisely for that reason

     

    This basic resentment of workers towards what is called the Establishment will not disappear under Biden and will in all likelihood increase in intensity.   If you cannot see that this presents  a massive problem for those on the Left who urged us to vote for Biden on the grounds that he would be – allegedly – the lesser evil  then its is difficult to know what else to say.

     

    Having urged workers to “vote Biden” how are are you  then going to present yourself as a credible critic of the regime once it inevitably starts screwing the workers over as it will from Day One.    You got the government you actively campaigned for and the workers will neither  forget or forgive you for that

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 6 months ago by robbo203.
    • This reply was modified 3 years, 6 months ago by robbo203.
    #208933
    Bijou Drains
    Participant

    LT – “Btw, change comes inch by inch, not by revolution.”

    well at least we have a Leninist admitting that they oppose revolutionary action, and prefer a gradualist approach. Or perhaps he’s got Bernstein mixed up with Bronstein, that’s all we need a dyslexic Trot

    #208934
    PartisanZ
    Participant

    Sometimes it’s two steps forward, one step back.

    Yes the last I heard that it was Stalinists in the Communist Party justifying another sell out in a strike.

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 6 months ago by PartisanZ.
    #208936
    Bijou Drains
    Participant

    Watching Fox News (it’s half time in the Newcastle match) and it looks like even Murdoch is jumping the sinking Trump ship.

    #208938
    LeonTrotsky
    Participant

    Having urged workers to “vote Biden” how are are you then going to present yourself as a credible critic of the regime once it inevitably starts screwing the workers over as it will from Day One

    In other words, you are saying “vote Trump” and make a statement, which is equivalent to cutting your nose off to save your face.  No one said that Biden will represent labour.  Far from it.  But there are no choices for labour on the ballot.  You don’t get it.  Whining about that fact gets you nowhere at best.  Btw, you still haven’t said who you would vote for.

     

     

    #208939
    ALB
    Keymaster

    “plucking the capitalist bird one feather at a time“ makes a gradualist strategy sound easier than the more accurate analogy of  “removing the capitalist tiger’s teeth one by one”.

    #208942
    robbo203
    Participant

    In other words, you are saying “vote Trump” and make a statement, which is equivalent to cutting your nose off to save your face.  No one said that Biden will represent labour.  Far from it.  But there are no choices for labour on the ballot.  You don’t get it.  Whining about that fact gets you nowhere at best.  Btw, you still haven’t said who you would vote for.

     

    “Vote Trump”????? How on earth did you arrive at such conclusion?  Surely, its pretty obvious what the socialist response is .  You dont vote for ANY capitalist party or politician –  neither Trump nor Biden.  If there is no socialist on the ballot, dont vote or spoil your ballot.

     

    At least that way you dont put yourself  in the ridiculous position of urging workers to vote for Biden and then whinging when the Biden regime starts behaving as every capitalist government must when you have actively connived in putting this regime in power.   Such unprincipled opportunism is a sure fire way to lose any credibility among workers who will suffer the consequences of a Biden regime just as they did under the Trump regime

    #208943
    robbo203
    Participant

    Steve Bannon, Trump’s former chief fascist advisor, is talking about beheading Fauci and Wray for “not getting with the program”.

     

    Bannon is an irrelevant nutcase headed for oblivion.  Why do you attach so much importance to these people?

     

    #208944
    alanjjohnstone
    Keymaster

    “If you think Trump is better than Biden or even equal to Biden, then you haven’t been paying attention over the last 4 years.”

    We are world socialists and it all depends on who you are. What if i was Libyan? Seeing your country destroyed and turned into a failed state when Biden was VP. What if you were an African American incarcerated when he helped the 1994 Crime Bill? Listening to politicians claiming to be tough on crime calling you a super-predator? Don’t trust me…listen to Sanders and his de-construction of Biden during the nomination debates.

    Biden is not the lesser evil…he is the proven evil.

    None of what is transpiring now is unexpected. Trump telegraphed it months ago and the Democratic Party fully expected legal challenges. After all, they went to the courts too in Florida in 1990. Inciting a mob is no way near launching a coup, LT.

    What you are missing is what is the point of  a Democratic Party president if  he cannot rule because of a Republican Senate as it seems to look like happening. Come 2022 mid-terms they will also likely lose the House of Representatives. Biden can carry out some Presidential Executive Orders but won’t be able to initiate any substantial legislation…no Biden-Care, no Biden-Green-Deal. He will have to go cap-in-hand to the Republicans to get anything passed. The Squad and the Justice Democrats have become an irrelevancy since they will not have any leverage … it is going to be the Mitt Romneys of the Republican Party who will prop up Biden. The DNC know it, if you don’t.

     

    #208946
    LeonTrotsky
    Participant

    If there is no socialist on the ballot, dont vote or spoil your ballot – robbo.

    Lunacy.  Trump is re-elected and life becomes exponentially worse for labour, not to mention the planet.  Your argument is that “if I don’t get my way, I’m not voting”.  Let me say to you that you will never get your way and you will always have the enemy in power with that juvenile attitude, at least in the US.  Time to grow up.

     

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