alanjjohnstone
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Again, Tim, i agree with you and once more i have argued very much the same very often and i have used the very exact same words as yourself … plus another well known phrase – "Let a thousand flowers bloom" and this is also the answer to SP…We should embrace diversity in our approaches. There is and should never be a specific plan. Never put all your eggs into one basket, as they say.But some say such a policy essentially leads to cheap shoddy propaganda that is counter-productive to an image we seek to project (pun on another proposal). Others say such autonomy challenges Party democracy decision-making. But you, me and everybody else are all working blind.You say more live events such as debates, public meetings etc. For sure.I will say more internet/web/social media presence. For sure. And i think this leads to the conclusion that both can easily be merged and synthesised so that they complement and enhance one another and become a much more effective means of communication. We video or record our meetings but what about live streaming of meetings where we also take online questions. I have argued that EC and conference/ADM should be conducted on some variant of Skype. The revolution should be televised, well, at least, the Party's democracy. Yes, the party had some degree of success in the past. Open air meetings were our forte and brought attention to ourselves and developed speakers of outstanding ability.When i first joined, this was the tpical the activity…A weekly Monday evening branch meeting with usually a dozen or more in attendance (inquorate meetings were unheard of), discussing the weekly EC report and when it was completed we continued informally in the pub.Saturday street selling the Standard with a branch order of near enough a hundred,Outdoor meeting on the Sunday afternoon plus inthe evening during the good weather at a recognised "Speakers Corner"In the Winter a series of indoor public meetings.We had a branch membership that rose to about 40-50 at its peak.We held debates and meetings which were mostly advertised by fly-posting and we were the most prolific that the council had a special file upon the branch. We were endowed with the services of a few talented screen-print artists.We had two or three retail outlets for the Standard. And if memory serves me correctly the print run was over 7000 for the Standard and party membership stood at just over a thousandBut things change and things move on. The world's most well known and most frequent venue for outdoor meetings – Hyde Park Corner – is a travesty these days…The rest around the country have simply disappeared due to traffic and parking and lack of interest.We have new methods of relating to one another. We should be posting "selfies" of our party on every web platform.I have suggested that regular lit stalls should be performed by every branch capable. KSRB have demonstrated their usefulness in making ourselves known and gathering contact info. I am a proponent of being active participants in every protest and demonstration and march, with banners and flags. Is everybody who holds a SWP placard a member of it…of course not, but it gives a visual indication that they are. CPB at one rally i went to dished out simple crude red flags with their initials screen-printed on to it…were they spurned by marchers ?…no…they ended up with not enough to distribute. Dare i mention it…where is our marketing and advertising and self-promotion? Took us decades to acquire a logo but where is the opportunities to use it…the badges, the tea-shirts, the caps and where are the slogans and sound-bites to go with itAnd before the Moderator decides we are off-topic, when Occupy arose i suggested truck-loads of lit. to be delivered, togive them all our available all our promotional items and donate second-hand books along with our own party stuff and even offer our premises and printers for their use and now with Nuit Debout, i say the same. Lets find out more and if there is a talking-space for us, let's get doing itEven if there is only the beginnings of an overlap with our principles we should embrace it. We go where we share something in common. There is simply a more effective approach than the random politics such as an blind unfocused election campaign…using valuable resources in the hope of reaching someone half-interested out of thousands when there are protests where they are taking part in because they are fully interested. We could go on but all the possibilities and potential is not worth a damn unless we can make our message one that receptive to the audience. I recall BrianJ often regaling conference with questions on what our USP was …what our Unique Selling Point was…the issues that make us stand out differently from the other parties but which also resonates with the public. And here is where, i think, we are operating blind…we still don't know those. W could have conducted our own surveys if we weren't prepared to pay..(i believe i have a vague memory of Standard survey)The website can be interactive with an on-line polls to elicit view and answers from visitors -one immediate if not perfect remedial step that is entirely practableWe have never conducted any sort of systematic survey into how we are perceived (much less the extent that we are known and not confused with other organisations)Have we concentrated upon what fellow workers are concerned about and would respond to? More economics? More environment? …We do stuff because it has always been done that way…hence my Einstein quote. And i will add another. "We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them." – Albert Einstein.We require to think our strategy differently..to think out the box…and like every experiment face the fact that some will fail, but we learn from the experience of what not to do…and that helps narrow the future options. ALB and others are right, i am a bit of Private Fraser but my own predictions of our ultimate decline isn't what we should be discussing…it is my positive prescriptions for reversing that negative trend. And to the dismay of other members, it does mean more engagement from Party members…and my somewhat doom and gloom prognosis of the Party's future is that we cannot expect the commitment necessary for an upturn to appear …but i'm the last to say we shouldn't try
I'm at least consistent, tenacious and relentless…qualities looked for in socialists. And it is always better the devil you know
I note the demonstration is claiming over 100,000 took place. But looking at the pictures and at the banners and placards and seeing who the speakers were, it was more a pro-Labour Party protest. Perhaps you saw it from another perspective being there. .I know members are very busy elsewhere with the GLA election campaign and street stalls so I was pleased that they made that extra effort, ALBFor sure, for the moment, the Left shuns our message but does that mean it shouldn’t be delivered? And our task is to find and explore new methods of explaining our case and communicating it – even to a mostly unreceptive audience but one in other ways are in search of answers…and believe they have them in Corbyn (and Sanders).As I have said before, we cannot keep doing the same or calling for more of the same. I have suggested a special conference to review and re-evaluate everything. Socialist Studies call themselves the re-constituted SPGB, I suggest it is time now that we ourselves re-constitute. I’m not saying we should emulate ever fad or fashion in politics but address fully why we have not succeeded in accomplishing our objective or even getting anyway closer towards it. A much needed introspection is fundamental to understanding the failure.As Einstein said “"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
Quote:indigenous people – despite accounting for about 4% of the population – make up more than half of the children in the child welfare system, nearly a quarter of inmates in federal prisons and a disproportionately high number of women who are missing or murdered.Quote:Even now, the vast majority of boxers don`t do it out of poverty, but out of passion. Millions join boxing gyms and pay to box, receiving no monetary reward for it!)No, i think they box to get out of poverty and easy enough to determine…where are the locations of the boxing gyms…in the slums and the ghettoes. Of course there is another name for boxing – prizefighting. A proficient amateur boxer invariably aspire to the professional game and for the riches it affords.Boxing and poverty may not be synonymous but i still hazard to say the link is strong. It remains the quickest way out of poverty for many young fit men (and increasingly) womenSo to my question about a prominent boxer who was wealthy when entering the sport and you offer Lord Byron – i rest my case.First recorded organised boxing match – between some aristocrat's butler and butcher – that says it allBefore Queensberry there were the Broughton rules where as you say, you can drop to your knees at any time for a rest and respite. but this according to Wiki was "unmanly" and already new rules were introduced to stop it in advance of the introduction of Queensberry. Why are socialists focused on boxing? Perhaps, it is exemplifies capitalism…an individual doing harm to another for a reward, whether it is status but more often than not monetary, for the entertainment very often of the rich and powerful. Much like a mercenary soldier. And should we forget the racial undertones and Jack London's introduction of the phrase, "the great white hope"
You know why i posted this topic, right, – because of a comment on another thread. It is posted to elicit observations from other membersSo i don't want to distact from it too much, being more interested in others views, but very briefly i will comment on one of your opinions and then offer no further discussion
Quote:We have to be the ones to democratically determine what 'things' are 'added' and what 'things' are 'dropped', alan.No ordinary mortal, Lbird, is capable of almost limitless knowledge. We can't know everything, nor do i think anybody really does aspire to that omnipotent state. What we are happy to do is delegate to others responsibilities to make various judgements and decisions on our behalf. We will only become involved when something amiss is brought to our attention.(In capitalism it is usually a tragic accident or a revelation from a whistleblower.) We then demand more information and further interpretations of the facts for us to determine our conclusions and our actions. Not everybody in the world is necessarily involved, only those affected, unless there is a global impact as in CO2 emission levels for instance. Most events and therefore decisions are actually going to be fairly localised and easily identified and tackled.In socialism I'm not placing blind trust in a scientist but trusting in the integrity of my fellow worker and neighbour. This is something we cannot do under capitalism with the bought and paid for by vested interest of research and experimentation.Perhaps as i suggest, we should now be proposing the procedures of checks and balances where science is placed under social control. The rudimentary networks have already appearedhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Society_for_Social_Responsibility_in_Sciencehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Network_of_Engineers_and_Scientists_for_Global_Responsibilityhttp://www.aaas.org/page/committee-scientific-freedom-and-responsibilityThese examoles are from a basic initial search on Google (a capitalist business biased source) citing real information sharing that will undoubtedly expand with socialism with the end of intellectual property ownership – WikipediaDo i have and you have all the answers to your questions, not at all, but we do possess a willingness to begin the process of figuring out accountability when socialism is achieved.Let sit back and see if other forum contributors can add or subtract from the possibilities and potentialities that the Party could be the engine of. Let's hear from them nd not start another debate.
I think it may be instructive by comparing Nuit Debout and Democracy Springhttp://www.democracyspring.org/One being more organic spontaneously started protest, the other despite its intentions, an initiative by radicals in the media and on social media, drawing upon and using a number of high profile personalities.One is not interested in media attention and getting on with making a protest permanent, the other actively seeking media interest and accept that they are a passing phase (but perhaps as inspiration for something else)
Another articlehttp://www.truth-out.org/news/item/35656-the-spirit-of-occupy-lives-on-in-france-s-emerging-direct-democracy-movement
Re my message #10 Anastasia Yankova "Kickboxing is a gentlemen's duel. When the opponent falls, the referee stops the fight. In the MMA when the opponent falls, your task is to ensure they don’t get up until you win." …in plain language…you keep on hitting a helpless opponent
Oh, Tim, I almost forgot, at one time, Edinburgh Br had enough members and sympathisers to raise their own football team for a local Sunday league.They called themselves "Capital", a pun on Edinburgh being the capital city and, of course, Marx's 'Capital', very appropriate for a branch of the Socialist Party football side. I had resigned at the time but me and some mates had a take-on game with them…we were up i think 6-0 by half-time…then we had a few joints, coughed up our lungs, wished we had some water to compensate for our hang-overs due to the previous night binge and in the second half we got beat 12-6 (15-6? 20-6? ), i forget now…
Yes, i purposefully laid out how certain social decisions can be by-passed so that actions of some will have minimum impact on others, following your own earlier prescription.If you think the present production system is going to be sustainable in socialism then i fear you are not following the current environment debate or health discussions. It certainly won't be a rationally organised socialism if nothing changes fundamentally.My scenario is i believe exactly the democratic practice socialism will bring to society…local and community rather than a transnational determining the flavour of some gassy refrigerated lager…or multinational fast food chain choosing our diet… or some tv channel ignoring particular sports due to lack of audience because the sponsors don't receive advertising. Actually once again being a relative newcomer to the forum you would have missed the many threads where i have suggested that the party is amiss in not having a clearer projection of what socialism will be like and that we should not be reluctant to produce a blueprint. I have not been inconsistent on this thread on the matter. And i do seek to change conference decisions to permit more literature on the subject of future society. We have to ignite imaginations. You do me an injustice. A couple of times i have said this topic is purely speculative, similar to a pub discussion. No-one can be right or wrong in it. If i have opinions then should i keep them to myself? Have i denied any other the liberty to express their own opinions. Or accused them of not being qualified to suggest them? No, but i have questioned them and i have done so quite reasonably, imho, and politely. That is what comradely debate is all about. I raised a few important questions to take the thread forward.
Quote:And who will decide if it is too much except by public expressions of approval or disapproval and again the problem we face, how public opinion going to be determined. What will be the mechanisms for deciding and the organs for enforcement? When does freedom stop being a free-for-all?As for football styles, so speaks the old fashioned "stopper" centre-half in what was the 2-3-5 i grew up with. Wouldn't we all like a return to the dribbling wizard forwards, the 5 feet-nothing outside rights and lefts etc. etc.. But today football demands athletes. I once saw George Best at 3am on a Saturday morning very much worse of wear, later at 3pm he was on the field for Hibs running circles around the opposition…but nothing like for the full 90 minutes…he wasn't simply fit enough because of his drinking…he came on as a substitute and then was substituted… The history of football is fascinating…Its origins in local businesses using it as a diversion for their employees and using the adulation those clubs received as their own ego-trips as owners and directors. Not much has changed in essence except that they have been astoundingly successful in achieving what they set off to do.It has always been galling to me that on a Saturday,as i went to attend a protest, i would pass ten-fold more folk on their way to the local stadium…All the emotion that should be focused on solving the problem of the world was satisfied by seeing their club climb a few positions in the league…Nor shall i mention the rise of nationalism as "my" country play another country. See my personal blog again on Scotland's Game of Shamehttp://mailstrom.blogspot.com/2007/05/blood-upon-grass.htmlIn my time, i met people with an encyclopedic knowledge of football results and players but who would turn to me, and say, with pride "i'm not clever enough or interested enough to be bothered with politics" and then they pay now astronomical amounts for season tickets and to follow their side abroad. Something is wrong with their priorities and multi-millionaires are rubbing their hands with glee. As i said being judgmental does come with the territory when we have more pressing goals than running around a field kicking a ball to score a goal. But am i saying that sport and leisure and recreation and culture and pastimes and the arts and hobbies are unimportant – no…the rich tapestry of life and politically we should be centred on participating…Recall the political ramblers demanding the freedom of the dales and heaths, the Clarion bike clubs, the gardening allotment campaigns … all the self improvement clubs and societies…I am thoroughly uplifted everytime i see a football crowd raise a banner – and they should realise just how much they will be effected considering the mulit-ethnicity of teams these days if migrants are stopped – saying "refugees are welcome here". Or as the Green Brigade did to the Celtic club director John Reid, warmonger Labour minister – "you are not welcome here."
