alanjjohnstone
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LBird i thought i was quite clear on who will not only make the revolution but will also define it and as equally important, on how the revolution will be carried out.
You quoted exactly where i answered, if you weren’t being so pedantic and nit-picking about the words i use, you’d realise that.
But i was specific ” fellow-workers … will emancipate themselves in the ways as they see fit.” (my emphasis)
I not only subordinated the role of the SPGB but i also subordinated the role of intellectual elitism such as the likes of any on the Left to the actual actions of the working class. Workers will correct for any mistakes they made, but no doubt after paying a heavy price of their errors.
So, once again, alan, who is to control ‘nature’ within your version of ‘democratic socialism’?
I have no idea what ‘nature’ is as it is something of an ephemeral essence, constantly changing into something else, continually evolving. We live with what is around us, we try to adapt our environment but we never control nature.
Engels was right, “nature takes its revenge on us… we by no means rule over nature like a conqueror over a foreign people, like someone standing outside nature—but that we, with flesh, blood and brain, belong to nature, and exist in its midst…”
But if you mean who controls the “laws of physics” as a form of truth. I have said before, socialism is the science of generalisations. We need not always concern ourselves with the many specifics in an endeavour for proof. Although some will demand empirical evidence, we can only qualify such results as being true under certain conditions and situations. Didn’t Marx claim the same get-out clause when he was describing societies? Just as accepted wisdom says water boils at 100C but only at sea-level and not up a 10,000 ft mountain
Once again, even without knowing everything about everything, the SPGB acts politically upon what we believe we already know about society and its relationships. You may challenge that claim of knowledge but we do expect you to be able to justify and back up your argument.
But as i said, you claim knowledge but do nothing.
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
Speculation on Biden’s cabinet appointments are already in the media but i will desist from adding to them since we will very soon know for sure. But if the rumours are correct, it confirms those who say it is Obama 2.0, tried and tested status quo officials from the Obama years. Capitalism is a safe pair of hands.
“The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it.”
Regardless of any criticisms of our current lack of success, to change the world remains our aim, LBird. We organised and we conduct activity for that precise goal.
You may think your own philosophical interpretation is spot on 100% but where is there any attempt to go beyond interpretation and actually engage in an effort to change the world?
For all its weaknesses you ascribe to the SPGB, its strength is in the social democracy it proclaims and practices…as it purposefully does not aspire to any political leadership over our fellow-workers. Whatever errors it may have in its ideas, they cannot be imposed against the will of the working class. That is real socialist democracy. We leave it to our fellow-workers to determine for themselves who holds the better world-view of society, who presents the best strategy for building a new social system.
And as materialists who accept that circumstances and conditions mixed with ideas and ideals means there is no fixed non-transmutable determinist outlook, and that how we view our surroundings and our relationship with it, evolves constantly, we persist in our advocacy for our own particular principles that one day eventually, fellow-workers will recognise the wisdom of , most very probably independent of ourselves, perhaps even without acknowledging it as the ideology of Marxism or socialism either, perhaps. They will emancipate themselves in the ways as they see fit.
However, your own political position entirely disappears with yourself. There has been no contribution whatsoever to influencing working class understanding. There has been not one thing that indicates that you are trying to change the world by actively engaging in it .
Isn’t that the definition of a political dilettante?
Sorry to be so harsh.
The meat industry remains what it always was – the Jungle
Tyson Exploits Consumers Just Like Its Animals and the Workers Who Raise Them (truthout.org)
For too long, the unethical, avaricious practices of the meat industry have been hidden from view. The scandals surrounding Tyson and other major producers are making clear that vulnerable workers, abused animals and a rigged system are the foundation of an unethical and destructive business model.
Just to raise another aspect of football and crowds, we also have women’s football to compare and their lack of crowds and media attention
Can we also talk about Joelle Wedemeyer's stunning goal for Wolfsburg earlier tonight which gave them the lead against Eintracht Frankfurt?
🎥 Eurosport pic.twitter.com/eZnjRVePEA
— Jasmina Schweimler (@JasSchweimler) November 20, 2020
I’ve never even heard of Casey, alan. I’ll give him a read, and let you know of my opinion of his ‘democratic socialism’.
And in all the years of exchanges and debates on this forum, we still learn new things. You of him and me of the link to him.
It makes the forum worth being a member of…now, if you were also a member of the SPG…hmmmm….i think we been here before … 😆
Apples and oranges, MS. Is the fan emotion contagious enough to determine results?
I never seen a baseball crowd chanting and singing like this before.
(apologies but this topic should be off-topic)
Again the SPGB was one of the few organisations – and emphasis on organisation – that held Fred Casey’s ‘Thinking’ to be worthy of study.
I note even Marxist Internet Archive does not include any of his writings and his contribution more or less forgotten and neglected. Perhaps your good self have not had the opportunity to have read him. However if you have, perhaps you could transcribe your copy and get it uploaded to the web for the world to share. That alone would be a valuable gift to Marxism.
LBird, isn’t it true that the SPGB had its proponents of Dietzgen and his British advocate, Fred Casey and his Dutch advocate Pannekoek who dismantled Lenin’s bourgeois philosophical roots in his ‘Lenin As Philosopher.’
So credit where credit is due that the SPGB promoted thinkers who did NOT argue that Marx shared Lenin’s view about ‘materialism’. That there was NOT any philosophical relationship between Marx and Lenin.
I keep reading the name Plekhanov who i have not studied, but it may well be Lenin learned from his works. You may be able to enlighten me.
I put together a blog post from the comments made here
George Orwell would understand the irony
Andrew Cuomo, New York State’s governor, is to receive an Emmy Award for his TV briefings on the pandemic.
“..his masterful use of television to inform and calm people around the world…”
Andrew Cuomo to receive Emmy award for televised Covid briefings | Andrew Cuomo | The Guardian
Those of you who have followed this thread understand that i view the culture of pet ownership as detrimental to the well-being of the planet.
This article also highlights the problems of pets
“Our love of pets is contributing to what is arguably the greatest environmental crisis faced by global ecosystems.”
An article revealing the fallacy that Biden can be shifted to the left
ELECTION 2020: War Profiteers, Chickenhawks & Consultants – Consortiumnews
When the final appointments have been made, we will have a much clearer view. As it is, Establishment corporate Democrats are pushing against any idea that either Sanders or Warren are given any effective political positions…but we will have to wait and see if that speculation turns out to be accurate or not.
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/election-us-2020-54696386
The 2020 US election campaigns smashed all records – with presidential and congressional candidates spending a total of almost $14bn – more than double the price tag for 2016.
