The Dark Future of the USA
March 2023 › Forums › General discussion › The Dark Future of the USA
- This topic has 189 replies, 11 voices, and was last updated 3 months ago by alanjjohnstone.
January 6, 2022 at 11:03 pm #225517
“unlike in 1920s Italy or 1930s Germany, major commercial interests didn’t feel nearly threatened enough by workers’ organizations and the left to allow the president to overturn democratic norms. Indeed, by 6 January, they seemed to see an unstable White House as a bigger threat to their profits…How does one defuse the situation? To begin with, Democrats need to focus less on conjuring nightmares about the future (even if some of those fears are warranted) and more on offering dreams that people can believe in. That means clearer bread-and-butter messaging about the material gains that politics can offer people. “
Bhaskar Sunkara, founding editor of Jacobin magazine, author of The Socialist Manifesto.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/06/us-democracy-capitol-attack-january-6January 6, 2022 at 11:13 pm #225518
Republicans’ anti-democratic attacks are the new normal.
The idea that politicians may need to step in and toss out legitimate votes is no longer a fringe idea, but instead one that has moved to the center of our political discourse. Combined with more explicit legislation to exert partisan influence over election administration – 32 bills became law in 17 states last year…
“Just as gerrymandering and Republicans trying to make voting harder have been baked into our expectations of democracy, it won’t be long until we just accept that Republicans will try to overturn elections they lost,” Matt Fuller writes in a haunting piece for the Daily Beast. “To not do so, to affirm an election that hands power to a Democrat, will become treachery in the GOP. That’s really where we’re headed – if we’re not already there.”
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jan/06/republicans-anti-democratic-attacksJanuary 6, 2022 at 11:30 pm #225522Bijou DrainsParticipant
The problem that Trump faces, as Marcos has alluded to, is that Trump supporters are generally low tax and small government supporters. Overthrowing a majority supported elected government requires a highly centralised, big state with high tax spend.
Add to this, as our analysis demonstrates, tax is a levy on capital. The capitalists are not going to provide support for high taxes to pay for Trump to be in office, giving them something that they already have (a quiescent working class).
Trump will not have support in terms of big business and big capital
Trumpism is certainly not a fascistic phenomenon, despite the bleatings of the trots and their follow travellers.
Fascist/Nazi parties have historically appealed to the marginalised petty bourgeoisie and those higher status workers who have been threatened by immigration, changes in market conditions, etc.
Trump appeals to the more rural, small town non metropolitan workers, who will provide votes but generally speaking are in the minority and are batting above their average, in terms of influence and attention.
The vast majority of urban metropolitan workers (in east Coast and West Coast US) have no time for Trump and Trumpism.
Combine the dearth of support for Trump in this area and the lack of support for big business and you can only see an end of Trump and his ilk.
I cannot see a Balkanisation of the US, as this would not be in the interests of the Capitalist Class.
The only other scenario would be with Trump supporters trying a restaging of the US civil War with a far quicker and emphatic victory for the Union and the creation of a more homogeneous Centralised US state.January 6, 2022 at 11:41 pm #225524
To broaden the debate even further with a related article about Putin and Russia
https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/1/4/putins-russia-is-not-stalins-ussrJanuary 6, 2022 at 11:51 pm #225525
Republicans have been preparing for the next presidential campaign. While the ruling Democrats are caught up in infighting among various factions, even the deadly COVID-19 crisis is being politically exploited. The Republicans are blocking key federal financial aid to prevent the Biden administration from scoring points for the next election campaign.
What is most dangerous, however, is the redrawing of electoral districts, or gerrymandering, which will curtail the basic democratic rights of Blacks and other minorities. In addition, various other requirements are all intended to achieve the same thing: preventing potential Democratic voters from casting their ballots.
https://www.dw.com/en/opinion-a-year-after-capitol-storming-us-democracy-remains-fragile/a-60317916January 7, 2022 at 12:12 am #225526
Most of those things about Fascism, Post Fascism, Fascists dictatorship, the self collapse of the USA are being propagated by Trotskyists. This is one of those groups:
It does look like the same propaganda made by other nonsocialist groups. It is well known that many conspiracy theories are created by the right are also propagated by the leftJanuary 7, 2022 at 12:22 am #225527
California is going to enact its own universal health system which was Bernie Sanders’s proposal. This state by itself is like a republic or a nation. Several years ago it was controlled by the Republicans. I do not think that workers in California are going to shoot themselves by voting for Donald Trump, even more, Hillary Clinton was the winner in this state by more than millions of votes, in another country she would have been president instead of Donald Trump
January 9, 2022 at 9:51 am #225553
- This reply was modified 1 year, 2 months ago by MovimientoSocialista.
The New Yorker article
“We’re not headed to fascism or Putinism but I do think we could be headed to recurring constitutional crises, periods of competitive authoritarian and minority rule, and episodes of pretty significant violence that could include bombings, assassinations, and rallies where people are killed.” Steven Levitsky co-author, “How Democracies Die,”
Barbara Walter, a political scientist at the University of California, San Diego, and author of a new book, How Civil Wars Start: And How to Stop Them.
Not even the gloomiest pessimist is predicting a rerun of the 1861-65 civil war with a blue army and red army fighting pitched battles.
“It would look more like Northern Ireland and what Britain experienced, where it’s more of an insurgency,” Walter continued. “It would probably be more decentralized than Northern Ireland because we have such a large country and there are so many militias all around the country.”
Larry Jacobs, director of the Center for the Study of Politics and Governance at the University of Minnesota, agrees that any such unravelling would also be most likely to resemble Northern Ireland’s Troubles.
“We would see these episodic, scattered terrorist attacks,” he added. “The Northern Ireland model is the one that frankly most fear because it doesn’t take a huge number of people to do this and right now there are highly motivated, well-armed groups…”
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/us-really-heading-second-civil-070014434.htmlJanuary 9, 2022 at 9:33 pm #225558
The civil war was something different of what is taking place at the present time, it was an inter class struggle between two ruling class, the north against the south, and some workers believe that they can do the same things, they are completely mistaken, it would be something similar to the spanish war where workers fought against workers, as Marx said that history repeat itself but the second time is a farceJanuary 9, 2022 at 11:51 pm #225559robbo203Participant
Its not just Trots who are speculating on the supposedly imminent fascist takeover of the US
Leonard Peikoff, Ayn Rand’s self appointed successor argues in his 2014 book, The Cause Of Hitler’s Germany as follows:
As Ayn Rand indicates in her introduction, this book demonstrates how German philosophy led to Hitler and the Holocaust.
The Cause of Hitler’s Germany is about two-thirds of The Ominous Parallels, a book of mine first published in 1982. In the book, I intended a warning: If Americans continue to accept and act on the same philosophic ideas that led to the Third Reich, then America will have to follow a parallel course and suffer the same result.
The book, accordingly, studied American culture and history in as much detail as that given to Germany. Given our cultural state, however, I did not expect any such warning to be heeded or even heard, and it wasn’t. There is no improvement in the thirty years since, no change in the basic ideas ruling the United States (and the West as a whole). The Soviet Empire has collapsed, but the ideas of irrationalism, self-sacrifice, and collectivism still dominate and fuel murderous tyrannies, primarily now in the upsurging Middle East, but elsewhere, too.January 10, 2022 at 1:15 am #225560
It is correct, there are also other groups and Leninists/Stalinists tendencies that are propagating the spread of Fascism and Post fascism, the social democrats in Latin America are doing the same thingJanuary 10, 2022 at 4:15 pm #225566
Another personality that is propagating the idea of fascism in the USA is Noam Chomsky, he has spoken about proto fascism in the Republican Party, probably it would be another title for his next bookJanuary 12, 2022 at 8:54 am #225582
Against a fascist-dominated GOP, democracy needs every ally it can get
The Stalinists are also spreading the idea of Fascism in the USA
Against a fascist-dominated GOP, democracy needs every ally it can getJanuary 17, 2022 at 6:47 am #225622
What in reality is cooking on the back burner is a civil rights movement similar to the 60 and 70 and in this time it is going to include all the poor workersJanuary 17, 2022 at 10:11 am #225628
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.