robbo203
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Graphical representation of the territorial gains and losses on both sides of the conflict
“Hardly surprising that working people want nothing to do with your tin-pot cult”
A stupid comment on so many levels. And if this debate on the war in Ukraine bores you so much why participate in it?
Proud? It wasn’t my accomplishment. Happy? Yes. The defeat of a fascist state’s army is something to be happy about”
I am still curious as to why TS considers Ukraine to be a fascist state but not Russia as well given that they are both very similar in being authoritarian repressive right-wing corrupt capitalist oligarchies and given that neither of them ostensibly identifies themselves as fascist despite there being fascist minorities in both countries.
Of course, since this information emanates from the Ukrainian regime we can no more regard it as being reliable than we can information emanating from the Russian regime, But anyway for what it is worth here are the figures…..
“information General Staff: Russia has lost 84,600 troops in Ukraine since Feb. 24
Ukraine’s General Staff reported on Nov. 21 that Russia had also lost 2,892 tanks, 5,822 armored fighting vehicles, 4,378 vehicles and fuel tanks, 1,870 artillery systems, 393 multiple launch rocket systems, 209 air defense systems, 278 airplanes, 261 helicopters, 1,537 drones, and 16 boats.”
“Proud? It wasn’t my accomplishment. Happy? Yes. The defeat of a fascist state’s army is something to be happy about”
Why does TS consider Ukraine to be a fascist state but not Russia as well? Neither actually call themselves fascist states, of course, although there are self-identifying fascists in both countries – in both cases a distinct minority. But not calling yourself a fascist (and even pretending to oppose fascism) does not necessarily mean you are not a fascist yourself.
Russia and Ukraine are remarkably similar in both being corrupt authoritarian right-wing capitalist oligarchies that brutally suppress internal opposition. If Ukraine is a fascist state then so too is Russia.
TS comes across as a far-right boorish Trumpist who is also clearly rabidly anti-socialist to the extent that he knows anything about socialism at all. Little wonder he sees no problem in giving unconditional and fervent support to one obnoxious capitalist regime in its territorial dispute with another equally obnoxious capitalist regime when the difference between these regimes is quite frankly, merely skin deep,
I imagine that if Ukraine started going on about wanting to “denazify Russia” from the word go, TS would be all too ready to jump ship and become an ardent supporter of Ukrainian nationalism. It’s just an accident of history that he finds himself supporting Russian capitalism and not Ukrainian capitalism. But it wouldn’t take that much to switch sides
It looks like Russian capitalism is due to contract by 4.2 % this year according to Russia’s own Economy Ministry and the longer-term prospects do not look good with sanctions starting to bite and what with the flight of many trained professional workers. Living standards are declining for the average Russian worker though according to this article not enough yet to trigger serious social unrest. The oligarchic parasite class that the Putin regime represents and serves will doubtless only be marginally inconvenienced
Despite the territorial gains of Russian imperialism in the form of the Donbas region in Ukraine etc the economic outlook is not looking good
The Russian economy is doing “just fine” according to Truly Stupid
I would still like to hear from him about how he reconciles that claim of his with this:
“The Russian economy is shrinking
According to independent analysis by the World Bank, International Monetary Fund and The Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD), 2022 will be a bad year for the Russian economy. Gross Domestic Product (GDP) is expected to drop by at least 5.5% in the best scenario to almost 9% in the worst scenario.”https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/russian-economy-contract-29-2022-economy-minister-2022-09-06/
“Lol. Robotomy thinks that when you want to take a city of 3 million you send 30,000. Genius.”
Remind me – when did I say the Russian imperialist forces wanted to take Kyiv with 30,000 soldiers? I simply said they made an assault on Kyiv as they continue to do with their missile launches today. You like putting words into other people’s mouths, don’t you TS?
________________________“There were two contradictory reports about the BBC article and I couldn’t be arsed discovering which was accurate.”
No stoopid -the contradiction is entirely yours insofar as you cited a BBC report dated 1 July to tell us what you thought the BBC imagined the kill rate was several months later…
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“The UK government for example talks of 15,000 Russian soldiers dead up until 27”
Hahahahahahahahahahaha!”
And Truly Stupid believes the propaganda the Russian military puts out about fatalities among its soldiers
haahahahahahahahaahah!
“What is this, grade 6 stream of consciousness writing? Yawn”.
LOL TS you’ve run out of arguments and now you are reduced to ad homs as your last line of defense. Boy, does it show. You would do well to seek employment as a clown in a circus.
“You said Russian “killed” you pillock, go back and look. 1,000 Russian troops were dying on average per month up until September according to the BBC. If we stick with that number of deaths til now then we can estimate about 8,000 to now.”
You are so muddled you don’t even know what your own sources of evidence are saying. The BBC report you cited was dated July 1 so how could it possibly be true that 1,000 Russian troops were dying on average per month up until September according to this self-same BBC report you cite or do you think the monthly kill rate is fixed? Also the BBC report you cite only refers to Russian soldiers’ deaths that have been individually verified by BBC News Russian – namely 4020 up to 24 June. That does not preclude the possibility that many more might have been killed. The UK government for example talks of 15,000 Russian soldiers dead up until 27 June and the Ukrainian government gives a figure of 34K
“The feint towards Kiev WAS protecting Donbass. It pinned Ukraine’s troops there preventing them from participating in hostilities. But, as I’ve already stated numerous times, protecting Donbass was only one of three war aims. The other two were/are De-Nazification and de-militarization/de-NATOization. All three, it was hoped, could have been achieved through a Ukrainian surrender and resulting peace negotiations. To bring Kiev to the table they would have to feel threatened. This was the reason for the multiple lightning thrusts into Ukraine including toward Kiev. The tactic almost worked but negotiations were scuttled personally by Bojo.”
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The imperialist military incursion into Ukraine by Russian forces is now called a “feint” by our resident Putin bootlicker who continues adamantly to refuse to call a spade a spade. Of course NATO is also to blame and socialists are no less critical of NATO and Ukraine than we are of the Russian regime. Unlike TS with his pro-capitalist outlook, we refuse to take sides in a capitalist war and two wrongs don’t make a right.
The other two reasons for Russia’s military imperialism cited by our apologist for Russian capitalism – denazification and demilitarisation – are BS excuses. The Ukrainian regime is no more – or if you prefer, no less – Nazi than the Russian regime. They are both corrupt authoritarian right-wing capitalist oligarchies remarkably similar in their makeup. As for demilitarisation, there was no chance as I understand it of Ukraine joining NATO according to its own internal rules
This is a capitalist war being fought for the usual capitalist reasons – spheres of influence, resources and so on
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“Russia Finally Admits Weapons Shortage in Ukraine War”Lol, some of the newly mobilized troops are short of toilet paper. Where it matters: tanks, aircraft, artillery shells, missiles and small arms and ammunition- no shortages.”
LOL So even when the Russian regime says there is a weapons shortage, TS refuses to accept this. You see, TS far from being comfortably seated in his armchair is actually based in the Russian-held part of Ukraine now as we speak and is closely involved in carrying out an inventory inspection of weapons there. He has been personally assured by Russian soldiers he has quizzed there that all they lack is good-quality toilet paper
___________________________________“The Russian economy is shrinking
According to independent analysis by the World Bank, International Monetary Fund and The Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD), 2022 will be a bad year for the Russian economy. Gross Domestic Product (GDP) is expected to drop by at least 5.5% in the best scenario to almost 9% in the worst scenario.”Bunk. The Russian economy is doing just fine.”
So in the face of the actual evidence that the Russian economy is not doing fine at all, all our Putin bootlicker can do is robotically assert that the “Russian economy is doing just fine.” Pathetic.
_____________________________________________“Which means approximately 1,000 Russian dead per month up to July which isn’t far off from what the Russians were reporting. Math not your strong suit?”
No, you plonker – I am talking about the total number of deaths to date in this war, not the weekly kill rate (which would obviously change from week to week anyway). The link you cited is out of date and at most would have been up to the end of June. The latest figure is 100K casualties on the Russian side though as ALB points out this includes wounded soldiers too. In terms of actual fatalities on the Russian side, one figure that I have come across is 71200 reported on 1 Nov (so up to the end of October). However, this is a Ukrainian estimate and is likely to be on the high side just as the Russian figure is likely to be on the low side for obvious propaganda reasons. It’s like I said – the exact figure is almost certainly going to be somewhere in between
“I did no such thing. Russia’s war aims were made known at the very beginning of the conflict and have remained unchanged.”
You are squirming out of the question again. To repeat – the question is if Russia’s war aims were to protect Donbas how come Russian troops were to be found on the outskirts of Kyiv? How is this not a case of militaristic imperialism?
_______________________“Lol, I’ve been hearing for months that Russia’s running out of missiles. The largest barrage yet hit just yesterday. Russia is not running out of weapons. It has been preparing for this conflict since 2012.”
Russia Finally Admits Weapons Shortage in Ukraine War
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“There is no evidence supporting your statements. The Russian economy is actually improving.”The Russian economy is shrinking
According to independent analysis by the World Bank, International Monetary Fund and The Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD), 2022 will be a bad year for the Russian economy. Gross Domestic Product (GDP) is expected to drop by at least 5.5% in the best scenario to almost 9% in the worst scenario.https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/infographics/impact-sanctions-russian-economy/#:~:text=The%20Russian%20economy%20is%20shrinking,year%20for%20the%20Russian%20economy.
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“Depends on which propaganda you choose to believe in. Ukrainian sources believe Russian fatalities are approaching 100,000, The truth is probably somewhere in between”
No, the truth is not somewhere in between. Even the BBC admits Russian losses are low. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61987945The BBC report you refer to is dated 1 July so the figures in it relate to June at the latest. In case you were not aware it is now late November. The same source you use – the BBC – now reports that there have been 100,000 Russian soldiers killed (10 Nov) roughly the same as the number of Ukrainian soldiers killed
“Erm, it’s spelled “truly”. Truly priceless! Lol”
Fair do’s. We all make spelling mistakes but if you think that is, erm, “truly priceless” then that makes you truly desperate as well. Talk about scraping the bottom of the barrel when it comes to point scoring. LOL
“Russia’s effective military expenditure actually ranged between $150 billion and $180 billion annually over the last five years.”
You make it sound like that is something to be proud of – investing in the killing industry. But I guess that is something to be expected of someone with a capitalist mindset and who supports an authoritarian capitalist regime like the Russian regime
But as it happens Russia’s military spending is less than a quarter of American military spending and yet you come out with daft claims about NATO’s arsenals being depleted by the war in Ukraine,
Do you seriously imagine America’s military-industrial complex – vastly larger than Russia’s – cannot continue to supply Ukraine with weapons for as long as it takes? This is to say nothing of the armaments industries of other NATO countries
Truely Stupid,
“I’m an internationalist but I recognise the right of a nation state to sovereignty as laid out in the UN system. Nothing to do with capitalism”
So you endorse the concept of the nation-state, an integral feature of capitalism’s institutional architecture, Hence you endorse capitalism
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“national sovereignty” is something to be valued!).”
It is. Without it the imperialists and hegemons will be either interfering with or outright invading you. Perhaps you enjoy being interfered with. Most people don’t.”
To repeat, all nation-states are latently or manifestly imperialist. Imperialism is an expression of capitalism and capitalism is global. The capitalist regime of Putin that you bootlick for has just engaged in an act of blatant or manifest imperialism with its invasion of Ukraine on the spurious pretext of denazifying Ukraine. There are, of course, some nazis in Ukraine (a minority) just as there are some nazis in Russia (even if not by name) but that is not the real reason why capitalist states like Russia go to war
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And you previously poured scorn on the concept of Marxian socialism”No, only on your twisted, inchoate interpretation of it.”
Care to explain what is “twisted” or “inchoate” about the Marxian definition of socialism as a stateless non market alternative to capitalism, eh???? It’s like you are just inclined to regurgitate any old unsubstantiated drivel that first enters your mind without a second thought. You are the consummate muddlehead
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“Russia is not imperialist. It is fighting against NATO’s imperialism. And it is winning. And that is good.”LOL Russian imperialism has just ceded ground to NATO imperialism in Kherson and elsewhere and this is what you call “winning”
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“Lol, it’s pretty obvious now why your “party” only has half a dozen members.”Please try not to come across as even more stupid than you are. The vast majority of members are not even on this forum
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“Russia is helping to create a new way of economic development through BRICS+ and partnering up with the Belt and Road initiative as well as developing many other multilateral institutions free of western imperial dominance. Win-win outcomes are the model not imperialist exploitation.”Gawd you are so gullible. Do you seriously imagine BRICS is some kind of benign non-capitalist initiative? “Win-win outcomes” is the language of smart-suited business executives trying to sell you something while being intent upon ripping you off behind your back. Do you seriously imagine the participants in so-called BRICS are not just as rapaciously capitalist as any other economic bloc in capitalism?
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“-You framed Russia’s actions re Kiev as failed. You cannot fail in an attempt if no attempt is made. You get that right?”I said it was an assault. I realise that you are a sandwich or two short of picnic but I tried to explain that a military assault on Kiev or elsewhere, whether or not the intention was to capture the city, was an expression of manifest imperialism. Your argument was that the actions of the Russian capitalist regime were justified because it was intent on “defending Donbas”, Well if so why did it not confine its military presence to Donbas rather than venture as far as the outskirts of Kiev. As per usual you squirmed out of answering that question
———————————-“Russia is fighting a war of annihilation against the Ukrainian military. Territory is not important, grinding the enemy down is. If it can achieve this aim from the left bank or the right bank of the Dnieper it doesn’t amount to a hill of beans. And once the Russian reserves are mobilised and the ground hardened offensives will begin that will, as sure as night follows day, eventually take back Kherson”
I cannot predict the outcome of the war but at the moment it appears that both sides are being ground down and many of your “grounded hardened” Russian squaddies – poor sods – are surrendering in their thousands and feeling distinctly disinclined to fight Putin’s war. I don’t blame them
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“NATO countries are voluntarily deindustrialising, their leaders have shot themselves in the lungs by refusing Russian hydrocarbons. NATO’s arsenals are already sorely depleted thanks to aid to Ukraine. Nato’s armies haven’t fought anything but tribesmen in decades. NATO is a paper tiger and the whole world can see that now.”Gawd, TS- what’s it like living in a little make-believe world all on your own? American military spending alone exceeds that of China, Russia, India, France, Germany and the UK combined, FFS. Its military-industrial complex must be rubbing its hands in glee at the thought of all that extra weaponry required and will have no problem meeting the demand. Russia’s military-industrial complex is by comparison tiny. There is no way it can match the combined manufacturing capacity of the NATO countries. If anyone’s arsenals are being depleted it is Russia’s. It’s little wonder it’s relying on North Korea and Iran for military support. As for your talk of Nato’s armies not having fought anything but tribesmen in decades, it was Afghan tribesmen that routed the Russian army if you recall
———————–“Two months ago it was up to almost 6,000. Ukraine at least ten times that though probably significantly more.
“How much Russian equipment has been destroyed or simply captured by the Ukrainian forces?”
Depends on which propaganda you choose to believe in. Ukrainian sources believe Russian fatalities are approaching 100,000, The truth is probably somewhere in between
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“Russia’s economy is huge and China has it’s back. It’s struggle is existential so it will make sacrifices. But the rouble is stable, inflation is falling and supermarket shelves are well stocked.”
“Huge” is a relative term. The Russian economy has not collapsed but there is no doubt that it is suffering as a result of sanctions and that things are going to get progressively worse the longer the war drags on. As for China – well China has got Russia over a barrel (no pun intended) and has been able to purchase Russian oil and gas at a steep discount rate. Capitalist competition does not cease between capitalist countries just because they appear to be friendly toward each other
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“I support the struggle against Nazism and western hegemony as should you.”
You don’t. All you support is the struggle of one authoritarian capitalist regime against another authoritarian capitalist regime. You have no objection to either authoritarianism or capitalism as such
The British people ‘just got a lot poorer’, says IFS thinktank
“In a separate assessment, the Resolution Foundation said the outlook for living standards was “truly grim”. The weak forecast for pay and high inflation, means that wages “will not return to their 2008 level until 2027”.
Had wages grown at the same rate as before the great financial crisis in 2008, they would be £15,000 a year higher. There has been a “19-year pay downturn” the thinktank said.”
also this
next-two-years-will-be-challenging-says-chancellor-as-disposable-incomes-head-for-biggest-fall-on-record
