Russian Tensions

January 2023 Forums General discussion Russian Tensions

Viewing 15 posts - 3,511 through 3,525 (of 4,086 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #236770
    robbo203
    Participant

    “Serious question…Is there anything written in MSM you don’t credulously accept as fact?”

    Serious question – is there anything written in your right-wing conspiracy sites that you don’t credulously accept as fact? Or for that matter whatever pronouncements are made by your favourite right-wing capitalist regime – Putin’s Russia.

    No, I don’t just accept everything that is written in the MSM. I studiously avoid anything published by the Daily Express, for example, which is mostly just material for toilet paper and on a par with some of the sites you rely upon for many of your outlandish and frankly utterly dumb claims.

    But nice evasion in the case of your feeble attempt to ridicule my point without bothering to show how it is factually wrong. How is it not the case that Russia’s imperialist invasion of Ukraine will have the unintended consequence of strengthening and unifying NATO imperialism, eh? The very fact that more member states are joining NATO is proof enough of that – never mind all the other evidence that points to the fact that NATO has been strengthened thanks to Putin’s imperialist blunder

    #236772
    Bijou Drains
    Participant

    “Serious question…Is there anything written in MSM you don’t credulously accept as fact?”

    Says the genius that credulously accepts the proveably false nonsense that Grover Furr spews out.

    #236773
    TrueScotsman
    Participant

    “Serious question – is there anything written in your right-wing conspiracy sites”

    When one wants to be informed on military matters one turns to military experts. It just so happens many such people lean to the right. Simply being right wing does not disqualify one from having credible analysis of the conflict. Working for MSM media does. And it is to MSM you look for information regarding the conflict in Ukraine. This is why you sound lobotomised when you offer your opinion on the subject. What do they say, “garbage in, garbage out”?

    “that you don’t credulously accept as fact?”

    Be specific. To what are you referring?

    “Or for that matter whatever pronouncements are made by your favourite right-wing capitalist regime – Putin’s Russia.”

    Supporting a nation in its struggle against imperialism does not mean one gives unqualified support to the nation’s government. Even someone as dim as you can understand that, no?

    “No, I don’t just accept everything that is written in the MSM.”

    Sure seems like it.

    “I studiously avoid anything published by the Daily Express, for example, which is mostly just material for toilet paper and on a par with some of the sites you rely upon for many of your outlandish and frankly utterly dumb claims.”

    And yet you give no examples of such claims. Wonder why?

    “But nice evasion in the case of your feeble attempt to ridicule my point without bothering to show how it is factually wrong.”

    I guess you mean about the Ukrainian and Russian governments being equally fascist even though one (the Ukrainian) came to power in a Nazi led coup, outlawed all opposition but far-right opposition, consolidated all media under its control, officially incorporated Nazi units into its military, allows Nazis to infest its police, military, intelligence and education, reveres a Nazi collaborator and declares him “father of the nation”, is ethno-nationalist, has death-squads roaming the country killing opponents of the regime, etc but the other (Russia’s) is/does none of these things? Is that what you mean you smooth brained, Koolaid drinking, tinfoil-hat wearing, credulous MSM consuming dupe?

    “How is it not the case that Russia’s imperialist invasion of Ukraine will have the unintended consequence of strengthening and unifying NATO imperialism, eh?”

    Because NATO countries are de-industrialising, de-militarising, are in economic free fall and about to see their proxies in Ukraine soundly thrashed. That’s how.

    “The very fact that more member states are joining NATO is proof enough of that – never mind all the other evidence that points to the fact that NATO has been strengthened thanks to Putin’s imperialist blunder”

    And how does rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic prevent the liner from sinking?

    #236779
    alanjjohnstone
    Keymaster

    TS “When one wants to be informed on military matters one turns to military experts.”

    Military commanders are sometimes short on political and diplomatic savvy and understanding of the ramifications of war.

    George Friedman heads Stratfor, a geo-political think-tank nicknamed the “shadow CIA”.

    You can agree or disagree with his analysis but right or wrong his views carry influence with those who hold weight.

    #236783
    TrueScotsman
    Participant

    “Says the genius that credulously accepts the proveably false nonsense that Grover Furr spews out.”

    Rubbish. But I’m not going to bite. The little goldfish has forgotten where it is again. It’s swum over to the Ukraine/Russia page. Swim along little goldfish, mind the filter-intake.

    #236784
    TrueScotsman
    Participant

    “Military commanders are sometimes short on political and diplomatic savvy and understanding of the ramifications of war.”

    You don’t say? Newsflash! Water still wet, fire still hot!

    “George Friedman heads Stratfor, a geo-political think-tank nicknamed the “shadow CIA”.”

    He’s exactly the kind of “expert” one doesn’t turn to. One must sort the wheat from the chaff. How often are their predictions proven correct, is their analysis fact based or politically/materially motivated, are they experts in a particular field or generalists, do they exaggerate or lie? Friedman is chaff, you’ll know less after listening to him. I recommend against it.

    #236786
    Bijou Drains
    Participant

    BD “Says the genius that credulously accepts the proveably false nonsense that Grover Furr spews out.”

    True Narcissist – “Rubbish. But I’m not going to bite. The little goldfish has forgotten where it is again. It’s swum over to the Ukraine/Russia page. Swim along little goldfish, mind the filter-intake.”

    Scared to be exposed to the implications of the ridiculous views you hold, more like. Your cowardice in terms of signing up for the war you support is matched by discussing the fragility of the material you hold so dear.

    #236790
    alanjjohnstone
    Keymaster

    He confirms an earlier post where Boris Johnson accuses the West of being prepared to capitulate to the Russians, expecting Ukraine to fall in 3 days.

    He explains why the West were reluctant at first to supply Ukraine with advanced hi-tech weapons.

    I think Friedman oversimplifies for effect such as declaring 4 javelin missiles stopping a whole convoy.

    I fully accept he possesses an ideological bias but doesn’t those you defer to also hold these? Friedman certainly is no friend of ours, a regular Newsmax guest, but does that disqualify his analysis?

    #236791
    Young Master Smeet
    Participant

    Tass are reporting Kyiv is largely without electricity or water

    The Russophiles at Moon of Alabama are cock-a-hoop at this destruction of the civilian populations capacity to survive, and the prospects of more evacuations: including the possible collapse of the Ukrainian economy.

    What we are witnessing is monstrous, and could be even more so if their claims that Russia has secured aerial supremacy and may consider bringing in the big slow bombers to really get to work.

    As the Washington Post says

    After just six weeks of intense bombing of energy infrastructure, Russia has battered Ukraine to the brink of a humanitarian disaster this winter as millions of people potentially face life-threatening conditions without electricity, heat or running water.

    They’ve also gone after heating

    The targeting of the gas supply was a critical development, said Victoria Voytsitska, a former member of parliament now working with civil society groups on getting Ukraine the equipment it needs. If Moscow takes out the gas system, she said, cities and villages across the country could become “uninhabitable.”

    Let’s be clear, in intent and consequence, this is barbaric. This is a catastrophe not just for workers in Ukraine, but everywhere.

    #236798
    TrueScotsman
    Participant

    “Friedman certainly is no friend of ours, a regular Newsmax guest, but does that disqualify his analysis?”

    He can be disqualified because A:he works for Stratfor B: he works for Stratfor and C: he works for Stratfor. (Oh and D: he’s wrong concerning just about everything).

    Inside the Fanciful World of Stratfor

    #236801
    TrueScotsman
    Participant

    “The Russophiles at Moon of Alabama”

    Is being a Russophile a crime now?

    “are cock-a-hoop at this destruction of the civilian populations capacity to survive,”

    They can survive only they’ll have to do it elsewhere. Europe mostly.

    “and the prospects of more evacuations:”

    Yes indeed, to all those NATOstani countries whose leaders insisted on expanding their hostile military alliance up to Russia’s borders. You reap what you sow.

    “including the possible collapse of the Ukrainian economy.”

    You didn’t get the memo? Ukraine’s economy collapsed months ago. Without NATOstani largesse there would be no functioning nation state to speak of.

    “What we are witnessing is monstrous”

    It is. That’s the war NATOstan and its proxy UkroNazis wanted and it’s the war they got. You can’t start a fight and then expect sympathy when you start losing.

    “and could be even more so if their claims that Russia has secured aerial supremacy”

    Lol, Russia had air-supremacy on day 3 of the conflict.

    “and may consider bringing in the big slow bombers to really get to work.”

    Rubbish. The Kremlin has gone out of its way to avoid unnecessary civilian casualties.

    “Let’s be clear, in intent and consequence, this is barbaric.”

    War is barbaric. Ukraine could’ve avoided it. It just had to implement Minsk 2. Instead, the Nazis insisted on war. You think Nazi Germany shouldn’t have had it’s dual use infrastructure destroyed? Should the trains have been allowed to keep running? Serious question.

    “This is a catastrophe not just for workers in Ukraine, but everywhere.”

    Hyperbole much? It’s not a catastrophe for you or me. We’ll be just fine. Still warm, housed, still fed.

    #236804
    robbo203
    Participant

    “Supporting a nation in its struggle against imperialism does not mean one gives unqualified support to the nation’s government. Even someone as dim as you can understand that, no?”

    LOL Truly Stupid. You surpass yourself sometimes in the extreme lengths to which you are seemingly determined to display your stupidity. Russia’s imperialist invasion of Ukraine does not constitute a “struggle against imperialism”. It merely represents an instance of one imperialist bloc (Russia and its backers) locking horns with another – namely NATO.

    ______________________________________
    “I studiously avoid anything published by the Daily Express, for example, which is mostly just material for toilet paper and on a par with some of the sites you rely upon for many of your outlandish and frankly utterly dumb claims.”

    And yet you give no examples of such claims. Wonder why?”

    I gave plenty of examples of your dumb utterances – like your silly claim that Russia is “decisively winning the war” when it has clearly retreated on several fronts. Or like your claim that Nato is demilitarizing and deindustrializing when the very opposite is the case. Thanks to Putin’s stupid blunder Nato member states are ramping up their military spending

    https://breakingdefense.com/2022/03/seven-european-nations-have-increased-defense-budgets-in-one-month-who-will-be-next/

    If it came to a conventional war with NATO , Russia would be obliterated

    “In terms of military spending, the United States and NATO are overwhelmingly superior to Russia. In 2021, Russia spent around $66 billion on its military. NATO’s European members alone spent more than four times that. The United States spent more than eleven times that much ($801 billion), though of course it has huge military commitments outside Europe. Moreover, European governments, including Germany, have promised steep increases in military spending, though the details are still far from clear.

    NATO’s European fleets alone have almost four times the number of Russia’s surface warships, leaving aside the huge forces deployed by the United States with the Sixth Fleet in the Mediterranean and the Second Fleet in the Atlantic. The assertion in NATO’s Strategic Concept that Russia can pose a serious threat to NATO in the Mediterranean appears unconvincing. Russia’s Mediterranean squadron usually consists of only three frigates and six Varshavyanka-class conventional submarines. The U.S. Sixth Fleet alone usually has around 40 warships, including an aircraft carrier and cruisers, backed not only by the other NATO navies, but also by their air forces…..

    In terms of sheer numbers of troops and weapons, NATO’s European members plus the U.S. troops presently stationed in Europe have a considerable edge. In 2021, the active ground forces (not counting reserves) of NATO’s five main European members numbered more than 500,000 troops, compared to Russia’s 280,000; and most of the latter are currently pinned down in Ukraine (or in tens of thousands of cases, dead or wounded). The United States has six combat brigades stationed in Europe; far smaller than overall Russian forces, but enough to seriously stiffen European resistance”

    The real military balance between Russia and NATO

    You said and I quote:

    “When one wants to be informed on military matters one turns to military experts. It just so happens many such people lean to the right. Simply being right wing does not disqualify one from having credible analysis of the conflict. ”

    Well the above is what the military experts are actually saying and it’s hilarious you posing as some kind of expert in military strategy and confidently assuring us that NATO is some kind of paper tiger, a spent force that will implode in the face of Russian military might

    ________________________________

    “I guess you mean about the Ukrainian and Russian governments being equally fascist even though one (the Ukrainian) came to power in a Nazi led coup, outlawed all opposition but far-right opposition, consolidated all media under its control, officially incorporated Nazi units into its military, allows Nazis to infest its police, military, intelligence and education, reveres a Nazi collaborator and declares him “father of the nation”, is ethno-nationalist, has death-squads roaming the country killing opponents of the regime, etc but the other (Russia’s) is/does none of these things? Is that what you mean you smooth brained, Koolaid drinking, tinfoil-hat wearing, credulous MSM consuming dupe?”

    You make me chuckle at your colourful if amateurish attempt to argue via insult which is your usual mode of argumentation (I detest Kool-aid by the way so please delete reference to this from any future attempt of yours to insult). Of course, the Ukrainian regime is an authoritarian obnoxious right-wing regime and I don’t apologize for it in the least. But the behaviour of the Russian regime is very little different. It too muzzles and even murders its opponents, clamps down on free speech and the right to protest, and is virulently ethno-nationalist.

    BTW I did not say Russia and Ukraine are “equally fascist”- learn how to read FFS! I specifically said I did not believe either of them are technically fascist – only authoritarian repressive right-wing regimes. You refer to the Maidan coup but conveniently overlooked that Zelensky like Putin was voted into power. Yes, there are self-identifying Nazis in Ukraine (a distinct minority) but the same is true of Russia. You don’t need to label yourself a Nazi in order to behave like one!!!

    • This reply was modified 2 months ago by robbo203.
    #236806
    TrueScotsman
    Participant

    “Russia’s imperialist invasion of Ukraine”

    If the invasion never would have happened if Minsk
    2 had been implemented, how was it “imperialist”?

    “does not constitute a “struggle against imperialism””

    It does, against NATOstani imperialism. The imperialists forced Russia to intervene in Ukraine to protect Donbass and remove the hostile miltary alliance AKA NATO from its border. The imperialists then used Russia’s justified intervention as a pretext to launch savage sanctions. These, it was hoped, would collapse the Russian economy.
    Putin would then be overthrown in a colour revolution, ethnic tensions stoked and Russia broken into pieces. The pieces then subjected to imperialist exploitation.

    U.S. gov’t body plots to break up Russia in name of ‘decolonization’

    “It merely represents an instance of one imperialist bloc (Russia and its backers) locking horns with another – namely NATO.”

    No, it doesn’t. The multipolar world being birthed now is qualitatively different to the one lorded over by the US empire and its EU vassals. You are too politically unsophisticated and ideologically blinkered to see the difference. Most of the world does recognise the fundamental difference however and is flocking to join the new institutions. You can scream into the void at how “its just another imperialist block!” and you’ll be ignored as ever because as ever, you’re wrong.

    “I gave plenty of examples of your dumb utterances – like your silly claim that Russia is “decisively winning the war” when it has clearly retreated on several fronts.”

    Russia is winning decisively. Amateurs talk tactics, pros talk logistics. You don’t see the forest for the trees because you’re the living embodiment of the Dunning-Krueger effect.

    “Or like your claim that Nato is demilitarizing”

    NATO has thrown almost everything it has at Ukraine to take on Russia. Almost all of it has been destroyed. Every new military aid package is smaller and more pathetic than the last. Know why? Cos NATO is demilitarizing itself.

    “deindustrializing when the very opposite is the case.”

    NATO is not deindustrialising?

    Hahahahahahahahahahaha!

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/europe-s-descent-into-deindustrialisation/

    “Thanks to Putin’s stupid blunder Nato member states are ramping up their military spending”

    Believe it when I see it.

    “If it came to a conventional war with NATO , Russia would be obliterated”

    Child, you know nothing.

    “In terms of military spending”

    I’ve already addressed this issue. Andrei Martyanov, an actual expert, might be able to put it in terms even your tiny brain can understand.

    Supply and Demand in Real War (Andrei Martyanov)

    “NATO’s European fleets alone have almost four times the number of Russia’s surface warships”

    See above. Russia has hyper-sonic missiles. All those ships, sitting ducks.

    “leaving aside the huge forces deployed by the United States with the Sixth Fleet in the Mediterranean and the Second Fleet in the Atlantic.”

    Sitting ducks.

    “The assertion in NATO’s Strategic Concept that Russia can pose a serious threat to NATO in the Mediterranean appears unconvincing. Russia’s Mediterranean squadron usually consists of only three frigates and six Varshavyanka-class conventional submarines. The U.S. Sixth Fleet alone usually has around 40 warships, including an aircraft carrier and cruisers, backed not only by the other NATO navies, but also by their air forces.”

    See above + hypersonic missiles.

    “Well the above is what the military experts are actually saying and it’s hilarious you posing as some kind of expert in military strategy”

    I don’t pose as anything. I listen to experts such as Scott Ritter, Andrei Martyanov and Brian Berletich.

    “and confidently assuring us that NATO is some kind of paper tiger”

    Scott Ritter’s words, not mine.

    “a spent force that will implode in the face of Russian military might”

    In a direct confrontation, absolutely. But better hope it doesn’t come to that.

    “But the behaviour of the Russian regime is very little different.” It too muzzles and even murders its opponents,”

    No, it doesn’t.

    “clamps down on free speech”

    All states do. Name one country that doesn’t.

    “and the right to protest”

    The right to protest exists in Russia. People protest there all the time. You reading the Guardian again?

    “and is virulently ethno-nationalist.”

    Lol, no it isn’t. Russia is a multi-ethnic state you knucklehead.

    “I specifically said I did not believe either of them are technically fascist”

    Ukraine is technically fascist. Man, there’s a lot of stupid in your tap water. Maybe try bottled?

    “You refer to the Maidan coup but conveniently overlooked that Zelensky like Putin was voted into power.”

    Lol, in elections presided over by a fascist coup regime, awash with NATOstani election meddling, during a civil war where millions of people in the east couldn’t vote. Real legitimate.

    “Yes, there are self-identifying Nazis in Ukraine (a distinct minority) but the same is true of Russia.”

    BS. A third of the military is not a distinct minority. Their influence is not that of a distinct minority.

    “You don’t need to label yourself a Nazi in order to behave like one!!!”

    The ukrainian Nazis happily label themselves just that. When they get their comeuppance, I’ll cheer.

    #236828
    Young Master Smeet
    Participant

    “Hyperbole much? It’s not a catastrophe for you or me. We’ll be just fine. Still warm, housed, still fed.”

    Solidarity? Destruction of wealth on this scale makes us all poorer. Trauma on this scale makes the world a more dangerous place. Psychologically, it is catastrophic for anyone with an ounce of human sympathy for the amount of fear and suffering being caused. Politically, a catastrophe that the working class internationally is not in a position to stop a war between capitalist states.

    #236843
    robbo203
    Participant

    “If the invasion never would have happened if Minsk
    2 had been implemented, how was it “imperialist”?”

    This has already been explained to you multiple times, knucklehead. The problem is you evidently haven’t got a clue as to what is meant by imperialism. Even in the very limited and narrow sense of the term as military conquest (which by no means exhausts the full meaning of the term ), Russia is clearly an imperialist state. How else do you describe its new territorial acquisitions? How else do you account for Russian forces encroaching on Ukrainian territory right up to the outskirts of Kyiv itself? Of course, NATO is a force for imperialism too. You don’t need to lecture us on the imperialistic intent of that body. But so is Russia. As a virulent anti-socialist, you are simply siding with one bunch of capitalist warlords against another and that makes you incapable of seeing what they both have in common

    _______________________

    “Russia is winning decisively. Amateurs talk tactics, pros talk logistics. You don’t see the forest for the trees because you’re the living embodiment of the Dunning-Krueger effect”

    Here we go again – more stupidities from Mr Truly Stupid himself. I love the way he wraps himself up in an air of smug impregnable superiority as if he knows the slightest thing that he is waffling on about. The hell you do, TS. Run along and play your silly war games in your little sandbox, kid. You havent got a clue what you are talking about. “Pros talk logistics” my arse! One of the great defects of the Russian military has been precisely their poor logistics which have been hammered by the Ukrainian military.

    It is a complete abuse of the English tongue to describe the recent Russian military retreat on multiple fronts as a case of Russia “winning military decisively”. Kherson is the only regional capital the Russian military was able to capture thus far and now they have lost that too. Hardly a stunning victory! They have been forced back to the positions they now hold and the likelihood is that this is where they will now remain if they are not pushed back further

    Of course, it is conceivable that by “Russia winning decisively” you mean only in the very limited sense that they have largely captured the Donbas and held on to Crimea. That may be the case but I think most people would understand by the expression “winning decisively”, the military defeat of Ukraine, and its complete surrender to Russian forces. That is not happening is it?

    ______________________
    “NATO is not deindustrialising?

    Hahahahahahahahahahaha!”

    Did you even read this article you linked to? How does it support your contention that the manufacturing capacity among NATO states to produce armaments has been degraded and is incapable of matching what the Russian military-industrial complex can produce?

    __________________________________________
    “If it came to a conventional war with NATO , Russia would be obliterated”
    Child, you know nothing.”

    HAHAHAHAH

    How amusing! Your evidence consists in a 48 second naff video of a complete nutjob called Scott Ritter sounding off about how NATO “has no military capacity”, how it is pathetic, how it is a paper tiger and how “Europe’s economy is collapsing” LOL (the guy is a yank and presumably doesn’t even live in Europe) blah blah blah. No wonder you come across as such a complete clown yourself TS if you are influenced by such trashy garbage as this. Though you deny it you have even used the same expression as that wacko- “Nato is a paper tiger”. If so why then is Russia so concerned about other countries like Ukraine or the Nordic states joining Russia? Its got nothing to fear from a paper tiger creeping right up to its border has it?

    ___________________________________
    “In terms of military spending”

    I’ve already addressed this issue. Andrei Martyanov, an actual expert, might be able to put it in terms even your tiny brain can understand.”

    I couldn’t be arsed to listen to the entire video but listened to snippets and couldn’t find anything that contradicted my original statement that NATO spends vastly more on its military forces than Russia. Yes, America has military commitments abroad but even so its military budget is 11 times the size of Russia’s. But what about Europe? It doesn’t have much in the way of military commitments abroad but its military spending is 4 times greater than Russia’s. Its combined military personnel are twice the size of Russia’s and are much better equipped and trained. Judging by Russia’s pathetic performance in the Ukraine, NATO would rout the Russian army if it came to a conventional war. Only a deluded fool would think otherwise

    -___________________________________
    “NATO’s European fleets alone have almost four times the number of Russia’s surface warships”

    See above. Russia has hyper-sonic missiles. All those ships, sitting ducks.”

    The US likewise has hypersonic missiles which simply means missiles that travel faster than the speed of sound. And if European fleets are sitting targets so too are Russian fleets and you don’t even need a hypersonic missile to destroy a Russian ship as we have already seen in this stupid pointless Ukrainian war
    ____________________________

    “But the behaviour of the Russian regime is very little different.” It too muzzles and even murders its opponents,”
    No, it doesn’t.
    “clamps down on free speech”
    All states do. Name one country that doesn’t.
    “and the right to protest”
    The right to protest exists in Russia. People protest there all the time. You reading the Guardian again?!”

    This is interesting although a bit dated (2014) and the Russian system has become noticeably more authoritarian since then – particularly since the imperialist invasion of Ukraine with the Putin capitalist regime criminalising opposition to the war

    https://globalfreedomofexpression.columbia.edu/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Galina-Arapova-Freedom-of-Expression-and-Information-in-Russia-3.pdf

    also this

    https://euvsdisinfo.eu/a-black-day-for-media-and-free-speech-in-russia/#

    • This reply was modified 2 months ago by robbo203.
Viewing 15 posts - 3,511 through 3,525 (of 4,086 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.