Russian Tensions

January 2023 Forums General discussion Russian Tensions

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  • #236853

    Lyrics by Nestor Makhno




    That analysis made by Robbo203 is totally correct, the problem is that TS is not going to accept defeat, and he is not going to accept that he is wrong, and also he does not read anything, even more some of his arguments are just copy and paste from other sources. We have written hundred of articles about Imperialism, we have debunked Lenin and leftwing concept of imperialism too, we do not need any more lectures

    There are hundred of sources and statistics showing that the Russian economic is in trouble, and the European countries, and the USA have increased their production of weapons, even more, this war is a gold mine for the arms producers, as well, there are many sources including RT who have indicated that the Russian army is being defeated by the Ukraine army, and the last retreat is a clear defeat

    The self collapse of the capitalist economy is a wrong argument, Rosa Luxemburg who was part of the collapse theory was not able to prove it either. In certain moment on his life Engels also supported that theory and then, he recognizes that he was wrong, and Lenin himself did not subscribe to the theory of the collapse of capitalism.

    it must be overthrown by a self consciousness world working class, and that phenomenon is not taking place at the present time, most workers are supporting capitalism, and capitalist leaders and their own ruling class, it is an idea that Marx and Engels worked on it for more than 35 years of their life


    Robotomy, believe whatever you like. I don’t give a toss. You are a wonderful example of what MSM brain rot can do to an individual. Well, unlike you, I don’t chase my tail in circles. I’ve made my case, I’ve explained why you’re wrong and I’ve supported my claims with copious evidence. I will be ignoring you from now on. I’ve led this horse to water, it don’t wanna drink, no use whipping it.enjoy screaming into the void Robotomy.


    That video of the Makhnovist song is rather disturbung with its gloriying the killing of the enemy. But that’s what you have to do to motivate your troops. Who is “Mother Anarchy” anyway, some substitute for “God”?

    As well as the war between NATO and Russia, a civil war is going on the same area today between those who consider themselves Ukrainian and those who consider themselves Russian. But not with men on horses and rifles but with tanks and bombs.

    It is also shows how utterly irrelevant today is the experience of Russian revolution and the civil war that followed. It is not a model to follow in any respect.

    Bijou Drains

    True Narcissist said “The multipolar world being birthed now is qualitatively different to the one lorded over by the US empire and its EU vassals.”

    How is a multipolar world qualitatively different to a unipolar world in terms of the working class. The fact is that we have had multipolar worlds in history and in fact the unipolar US based single superpower is actually unusual historically, we had a multipolar world up until the disintegration of the USSR.

    During the life of Lenin, who’s theory of Imperialism you pretend to support and understand, but you clearly have never read or absorbed (I am still chuckling about your reference to the Polish late medieval Empire a being an example of Imperialism), the world was very definitely multipolar.

    The German, the Austro Hungarian and the Ottoman Empires were vying for control of the world’s resources with the British, French and American Empires. A multipolar world then was not an advantage to the Workers at all, how will it be advantageous to us now?. (Just in case you have forgotten, Socialists are supposed to be supporting the interests of our own class, the Working Class).

    In the time of Marx the world was multipolar, The British Empire, The French Empire, The German Empire, The Italian Empire, The Belgian Empire, The Dutch Empire and the Portuguese Empire were involved in the scramble for Africa and the colonisation of The East Indies, did Marx highlight the way that this Multipolar World was a great benefit to the workers of the world, I think not.

    You state that this new multipolar world will be, and I quote directly from you “qualitatively different” from the unipolar world of US and EU hegemony. How will this be qualitatively different for workers in this new world? You, according to your description of yourself, are a Marxist. So how can you explain, from a Marxist frame of reference, that this new multipolar world will be qualitatively different?

    How will this multipolar world bring about the end of the exploitation of the working class, i.e. the end of the use of capital to produce surplus value? If the system, you describe does not end the expropriation of the product of the workers
    labour, how can this be helpful to the Workers?

    How can the hegemony or even the parity of the Russian capitalist class (you have admitted that Russia is a capitalist society) help the working class in any way? Russia is one of the most unequal countries in the world. The poorest half of the population owns 17% of national income, while the richest 500 people own 40% of financial assets in the country.

    My Trades Union has had affiliation with Russian Trades Unions and our affiliates have stated that there have been many occasions of wildcat strikes in Russia because the trades union legislation is even more repressive that UK anti trades union legislation. The Russian Government has stated that “labour relations in Russia are amicable and settled, and there are practically no disputes or strikes”. You claim to be a Marxist, can you seriously state that somehow the Russia has developed a way of running a capitalist state (which you have acknowledged exists) where there is no conflict between the interests of Labour and the interests of Capital?

    Furthermore, considering your promotion of a multipolar world, The Chinese Communist Party has stated very clearly that China is not a Socialist society, it has stated that development of a Socialist Society will take “in the region of 100 years”. I have previously quoted that statement and you have acknowledged that this is the situation. This statement states explicitly that “large sections of the economy will be based on the capitalist model”. How can the capitalist model, which Marxists (which you claim to be) know and understand to based on the exploitation of surplus value, be in the interests of the Working Class??????

    How is being exploited by a Russian or a Chinese capitalist be “Qualitatively different” from being exploited by a British, American or European Capitalist?

    You don’t even have the rudimentary understanding of economic, social or Marxist theory and history to realise that using the term “vassal” is clearly economically inappropriate for a discussion about a capitalist economy!!


    Reply To: #236859 in Russian Tensions

    That stupid and anti marxist idea is being repeated by all the left-wingers and pro Putin in the internet, and they repeat it like parrots without knowing what they are saying, they are saying that one individual will bring a new world rearrangement when in reality one president, one leader can not alter the economic base of a class society, and a new rearrangement will not benefit the world working class, it is a new form of exploitation, like the old one, and a multipolar world has always existed since the emerge of capitalism, most of them are repeating the same thing without knowing any basic of political economy and capital accumulation.

    Capital is one of the enemies of the capitalist class which force them to compete among each others, and to use the working as cannon folders to defend their economical interests by using patriotism and nationalism, and the stupidity of the homeland

    They think that capitalism and war is a conspiracy promoted and conducted by one individual instead of the market system which shows that they are just a bunch of ignorants

    When the state capitalist Russian society fell the USA took part of its spheres of influences and territory and despite its economic and military power did not create a mono polar world, they were other capitalist imperialist powers fighting for world domination including china and other European countries,

    They are talking about a new world started by an individual known as Putin, when in reality the new order is capitalism which started in England more than three centuries ago, and it has been expanding itself since that time, it is a natural law of capitalism, and nobody can stop that process, therefore globalization is not a new phenomenon, on the contrary capitalism has already played its historical mission and it is reactionary and a backward economy system, the new order is going to be socialism/communism which will replace capitalism and all its leaders, multipolar world, wars, enemies among the peoples, chunks of lands known as nation and the market system.

    Socialists do not glorify leaders, empires, heroes, martyrs, wars and multipolar capitalist powers, that glorifications belong to the pro capitalists and their historians


    Anybody who make his/her analysis departing from the experiences of the Soviet Union will always obtain wrong conclusion. The Soviet Union should not have existed, and without it the world socialism would have been in a much better stand, we would not be talking so much about state capitalism


    A new law to be brought in where any promotion of homosexuality – including in books, films and online – will be illegal and carries heavy penalties. Anyone who breaks the law will face a fine of up to 400,000 rubles ($6,600), while companies could have to pay up to 5 million rubles ($82,100).

    It was approved by 397 votes to none in the Duma – Russia’s lower house – with no abstentions.

    The bill still has to pass in the upper house and be signed off by President Vladimir Putin, but this is largely seen as an administrative step.

    Putin in a recent speech, he accused the West of “moving towards open Satanism”, citing the promotion of gay and transgender rights in Europe as an example.

    It makes the anti-gay extreme right of the Republicans in America seem liberal.


    Therefore, all pro Russia and pro Putin are homophobic, and supporter of Christians right wingers, a conception that is not supported by socialism/communism.

    Based on the definition of Fascism/Nazism by the left wingers that is also fascism/nazims.

    Some USA Republicans senators approved the same sex marriage. Those laws are the ones who created violences against homosexuals. The fascists inside they are not outside of Russia


    “I’ve explained why you’re wrong and I’ve supported my claims with copious evidence. I will be ignoring you from now on. ”

    That’s right TS, leave the battlefield of debate after you have been comprehensively trounced. I am not surprised. The quality of the evidence you have relied upon – like the deluded musings of a wacko like Scott Ritter – has let you down badly and this after you had the nerve to pour scorn on the various sources I and others here have used to refute your arguments

    I am convinced that the longer this stupid senseless war goes on between these rival gangs of capitalist warlords, the more will workers come to see that the only sensible position to take is a complete and principled opposition to both sides. The SPGB and others who take this line will be proven right in the end – just wait and see. Nationalism is a mental disease and murder and mayhem are its most obvious symptoms


    “like the deluded musings of a wacko like Scott Ritter”

    Not sure that’s a legitimate or justifiable description of Ritter.

    For seven years he served as a United Nations weapons inspector in Iraq in the United Nations Special Commission (UNSCOM), which was charged with finding and destroying all weapons of mass destruction and WMD-related manufacturing capabilities in Iraq.

    Ritter became an outspoken critic of the Bush administration’s claims that Iraq possessed significant WMD stocks or manufacturing capabilities, the primary rationale given for the U.S. invasion of Iraq in March 2003. Prior to the war, Ritter stated that the U.S.and British governments were using the presence of WMD’s in Iraq as a political excuse for war.


    “like the deluded musings of a wacko like Scott Ritter”

    Not sure that’s a legitimate or justifiable description of Ritter.

    Based on the comments made by Ritter in that ridiculous video TS presented to purportedly show that NATO was a “paper tiger” etc, it is an entirely justified description of the man. Anyone who seriously imagines that NATO is not a major – in fact THE major military force -in the world is seriously deluded. The military power of the US alone speaks for itself – let alone the military power of all the other constituent member states of NATO


    “like the deluded musings of a wacko like Scott Ritter”
    Not sure that’s a legitimate or justifiable description of Ritter.”

    On this, I have to agree with Lizzie45 that back in 2003 Ritter was indeed an insightful commentator.

    But that does not mean that his view remains valid in the present situation where he has no direct experience.

    His access to information is as limited as any other journalist’s sources. How much “insider” knowledge he possesses is somewhat suspect after almost two decades of being away from any professional involvement in intelligence agencies.

    Since his period of imprisonment (most likely instigated by his political position) he has become much more contrarian.

    He certainly didn’t side with Saddam Hussein and his observations on the actual invasion tactics on the conduct of the war were much more measured compared with his writings now.


    Very revealing article here about how the US is profiting from the Ukraine war at the expense of the EU. Exploiting the EU’s need for an alternative supply of gas than Russia by selling it at a high price — profiteering is the more usual word — and preparing to make profits by selling EU countries arms as they will need to replenish their stock. Then there is the trade rivalry with the US seeking to protect its industries from overseas competition.

    In this last respect, a French MEP confirms that even when it comes to negotiations over trade might is right:

    “At some point, you have to assert yourself,” said French MEP Marie-Pierre Vedrenne. “We are in a world of power struggles. When you arm-wrestle, if you are not muscular, if you are not prepared both physically and mentally, you lose.”

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