Russian Tensions
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“Russia lost an estimated thousand of its T-90, T-80 and T-72 tanks and now using 50-year-old T-62s.”
Your source is Ukraine’s Defence Ministry? Lol. If we’re just making things up, why not 5,000 or 10,000? Heck, a bajillion tanks lost!
“Who is scraping the barrel?”
NATO. Which I’ve amply demonstrated.
“Didn’t I read that half of Ukraine’s armour force was captured from Russia during its retreats and abandoned its equipment making it the largest supplier of armaments to Ukraine?”
Sounds like Starlight the rainbow unicorn is in the news again.
“Raytheon announced new $1.2 Billion contract to deliver six National Advanced Surface to Air Missile System batteries for Ukraine.”
And how long is that going to take? And if they ever arrive…they’ll be converted to molten slag by Russia’s military. Yet more demilitarisation.
“I mention the economic data”
What do they say, lies, damn lies and statistics? Your statistics are bunk. The European economies are in far worse shape than your “sources” suggest.
“because of your scaremongering”
Just calling it how I see it.
“that the EU economy was on the verge of collapse or as you claim – de-industrialisation.”
There are countless articles on the topic on the internet. Search for yourself if you don’t believe me.
“Is it a bed of roses? No. Germany has a decline of 0.2% next year after growing by 1.7% in 2022.”
Lies, damn lies and statistics.
“But you prefer apocalyptic hyperbole”
That is the nature of capitalism. Boom and bust. Add in a pandemic, austerity, fruitless war spending and self imposed energy sanctions and voila, economic collapse. Someone’s forgetting their Marx.
“Russia’s recession from its own press release”
Actually the Kremlin is very optimistic about the future of the Russian economy.
https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/russian-economy-contract-29-2022-economy-minister-2022-09-06/
“I quoted its central bank director. The sanctions after being initially softened by the boost in oil and gas revenues are beginning to bite deep.”
The sanctions are good for Russia. Russia will develop its own industries to fill the niche.
“300,000 conscripted”
They’ll be back to work soon enough. The Ukrainian military is facing imminent defeat. My guess, no more than a year.
“700,000 choosing exile”
Most of those who left are already back. Even the anti-Kremlin Moscow Times reports as much.
“has created a labour shortage”
Well, the returnees can take their jobs back I guess.
“Can i remind you of the Edwin Starr song – WAR”
What is it good for? Defeating Nazis.
Talking of Starlight, the rainbow unicorn, lets not get carried with ridiculous fantasies. If it came to a conventional war NATO Imperialism would easily defeat Russian imperialism. Hell, the American capitalist regime has more than enough firepower on its own to defeat the Russian capitalist regime, never mind the combined power of its NATO partners – this regardless of whatever temporary difficulties it might have in supplying its proxy, Ukraine, with enough weapons to defeat the Russian military
But why are we even discussing this? There is nothing to be proud of about a country’s relative military prowess. Only a sick nationalist can glory in some capitalist regime’s ability to murder thousands of workers on the “other side”
You quote a government minister from September. I quote Russia’s central bank head from November. Who would you trust? A political appointee or a career economist?
“Most of those 700,000 who left are already back.”
Good…700,000 disloyal and potential dissident citizens for the FSB to cope with.
But, of course, there may well be another mobilisation of conscripts if Russian casualties mount if this anticipated Winter offensive fails. Already there are rumours of a post-Xmas second mobilisation
The current fighting for Bakhmut is indeed taking a heavy toll on both sides. If it is captured, it won’t be the Putin or Russian army getting the credit but Wagner’s Prigozhin who many say is manoeuvring to replace Putin. Why else is a Pyrrhic victory for an insignificant non-strategic town worth so much effort other than propaganda value for a Prigozhin power-grab?
“If it came to a conventional war NATO Imperialism would easily defeat Russian imperialism.”
(Yawn). Russia is not imperialist.
“Hell, the American capitalist regime has more than enough firepower on its own to defeat the Russian capitalist regime”
Lol, you forget about that ocean that needs crossing? The ports where the equipment must be unloaded? If it came to such a conflict all those ports would be vaporised, all that hardware sitting at the bottom of the ocean.
“never mind the combined power of its NATO partners”
Paper tigers aren’t scary.
“this regardless of whatever temporary difficulties”
“Temporary”? Erm, try “terminal”.
“But why are we even discussing this? There is nothing to be proud of about a country’s relative military prowess.”
We are discussing this because there is a threat of a direct military conflict between NATO and Russia.
“Only a sick nationalist can glory in some capitalist regime’s ability to murder thousands of workers on the “other side””
Anyone with half a brain welcomes the defeat of Nazism and imperialism. Maybe the lobotomy was a bit too vigorous.
“You quote a government minister from September. I quote Russia’s central bank head from November. Who would you trust? A political appointee or a career economist?”
I believe the government minister. He has all the facts at hand.
“Good…700,000 disloyal and potential dissident citizens for the FSB to cope with.”
Seems you’ve chosen a side.
“But, of course, there may well be another mobilisation of conscripts if Russian casualties mount if this anticipated Winter offensive fails.”
It won’t fail.
“Already there are rumours of a post-Xmas second mobilisation”
Rumors, eh?
“The current fighting for Bakhmut is indeed taking a heavy toll on both sides.”
Erm, actually it’s not taking a heavy toll on Russia. Russian forces are in no hurry. They sit back with their missiles and artillery and grind Ukrainian positions to dust. They then move in with their tanks and infantry to mop up anything left with a pulse. Casualty ratios are 10:1.
“If it is captured, it won’t be the Putin or Russian army getting the credit but Wagner’s Prigozhin who many say is manoeuvring to replace Putin.”
Lol. I’m sure Prigozhin will ride into the Kremlin on our friend Starlight the rainbow unicorn.
“Why else is a Pyrrhic victory for an insignificant non-strategic town worth so much effort other than propaganda value for a Prigozhin power-grab?”
Lol, I see you’re already parroting the MSM spin. The town is extremely important strategically. Once it passes into Russian hands Ukrainian resistance in Donbass faces total collapse.
“you forget about that ocean that needs crossing”
You forget America’s powerful aircraft carrier fleet (23) and of course what George Orwell called Airstrip One – the UK – with its extensive American airbases.
You forget what is called war reserve stock, equipment and supplies pre-positioned around Europe and in Israel
America has relatively recent experience from the two Iraqi wars of the logistic transportation of combat-ready battle groups. And equally as seen in Afghanistan a speedy retreat and withdrawal.
But be rest assured, those of us on this forum will NOT be rushing to enlist or resist any Russian invasion. We’ll accept any occupation and will adapt and adjust our political activity appropriately.
“I believe the government minister. He has all the facts at hand.”
And where do you think all his information comes from? The equivalent of the Fed Reserve and the Bank of England. The person I quoted.
“Seems you’ve chosen a side.”
We support all draft dodgers and anti-war campaigners. If you go back to the start of this topic thread you will read our praise for Ukrainian men leaving the country rather than being called up.
“(Yawn). Russia is not imperialist.”
(Yawn) imperialism is a symptom of capitalism and it’s expansionist accumulative dynamic. All capitalist states – and Russia is a capitalist state – are latently or manifestly imperialistic in that sense. Russian capitalism is manifestly imperialistic in its military invasion of Ukraine and its clear desire to acquire new territories
“Lol, you forget about that ocean that needs crossing? The ports where the equipment must be unloaded? If it came to such a conflict all those ports would be vaporised, all that hardware sitting at the bottom of the ocean.”
You’ve been chomping on your magic mushrooms and riding your magic unicorn again? The mighty Russian military is struggling against Ukraine as it is and retreating on several fronts. How do you imagine it would fare against the combined might of NATO even without the yanks? If European ports can be vaporized so can Russian ports, Russian tanks, Russian missile systems etc etc etc, and on a much larger scale Or in your fantasy view of the world do you imagine these things are impregnable? Of course, a conventional war with NATO is most unlikely because if it did happen it would likely escalate into a nuclear conflict in which case we would all be vaporised. And imbecilic nationalist warmongers cheering on one side or the other, like yourself, will be to blame
“We are discussing this because there is a threat of a direct military conflict between NATO and Russia.”
Yes and only a nationalist and rabid supporter of capitalism like you would actually choose to support one capitalist side against the other in this conflict. You are no better than the liberals you say you oppose
“Anyone with half a brain welcomes the defeat of Nazism and imperialism. Maybe the lobotomy was a bit too vigorous.”
Except that this conflict has got sod all to do with the “defeat of Nazism”. If Ukraine is a Nazi regime then so too is Russia in de facto terms! There is nothing to choose between them of any substance, apart from the labels. All capitalist states need to concoct some ideological pretext or excuse for engaging in a war with a rival capitalist state in order to advance their own material interests. The Putin regime invented the pretext of “denazification” to justify its imperialist invasion of Ukraine. In reality, it is a mirror image of Ukraine in being a right-wing repressive corrupt authoritarian regime that muzzles its opponents and attacks basic democratic freedoms
“You forget America’s powerful aircraft carrier fleet (23)”
No, I don’t. They’re sitting ducks for Russian submarines and hypersonic missiles. And they can’t act as ports.
“and of course what George Orwell called Airstrip One – the UK – with its extensive American airbases.”
Russia has the most advanced air defence systems in the world by a long shot. UK ports can also be vaporised. Ipso facto, no US tanks arriving in Europe.
“You forget what is called war reserve stock, equipment and supplies pre-positioned around Europe and in Israel”
Lol. You think that’ll make all the difference? As Scott Ritter has written it won’t.
“America has relatively recent experience from the two Iraqi wars of the logistic transportation of combat-ready battle groups. And equally as seen in Afghanistan a speedy retreat and withdrawal.”
Russia would never allow the buildup of an American invasion force to take place in Europe. It’d all be destroyed in the ocean.
“But be rest assured, those of us on this forum will NOT be rushing to enlist or resist any Russian invasion. We’ll accept any occupation and will adapt and adjust our political activity appropriately.”
Good to know. I’ll tell my buddy Putin. There are six cowards sitting in their frozen basements in the UK who definitely won’t be taking part in any war against NATOstani/Nazi aggression.
Another amateur weighs in on the number of casualties in Ukraine:
EU Commission chief in hot water over Ukraine war loss estimates
Or does she know something we don’t?
Och aye. And Italian tanks have five gears. All in reverse LOL!
This krieg, it worries me, I may tell you. Sit at home every night thinking about it and smoking endless cigarettes. If you were to call to my place any evening after seven I would show you one. Quite circular, like a hoop.“Hell, the American capitalist regime has more than enough firepower on its own to defeat the Russian capitalist regime”
TN – Lol, you forget about that ocean that needs crossing?
LOL,, You forgot, I think you’ll find that fighter aircraft these days can actually fly!!
With in air refueling, the Lockheep Martin Raptor could get across the Atlantic in less that 16 hours. This is in addition to the Raptors already based in Europe and the hundreds and hundreds of 4.5 Generation Fighters available across Western Europe.
Interestingly the US is replacing it’s very capable Fairchild Republic A10 tank buster with Raptors, squadron by squadron, as the Raptor is even more capable that the A10.
As to the reported 300,000 conscriptees and their impact on the war. Besides the considerable time involved in actually arranging the call up of the poor members of the working class being dragged into on the Russian side of intercapitalist dispute, which may take several weeks at least, training an infantryman takes about 14-16 weeks. Given that most Russian men will have been part of the 1 year national service requirement in Russia, the estimate to ready for the meat grinder is between 6-10 weeks, so the whole process is likely, at best, to start to have an impact at the eariest March or April. However the logistics also require that the new conscriptees have training bases and army training staff to carry out the role, which will mean that the process would take much, much longer.
Putting this into some context, the Iraqi army numbers at the start of the 2nd Gulf war was around 370,000 soldiers plus around 75,000 Iraqi Guards. The numbers that Putin is attempting to put into the field are about the same and the equipment is not that much more sophisticated
TS- “There are six cowards sitting in their frozen basements in the UK who definitely won’t be taking part in any war against NATOstani/Nazi aggression.”
If I recall in several earlier exchanges BD challenged you to join up.
Wagner has a recruitment office in St Peterburg for you to sign up.
….oops I forget, your politics are that of a chickenhawk warmonger…let other people do the dying while you do battle on your keyboard from the comfort of your armchair, safe from bullets and bombs
“NATOstani/Nazi aggression” ???
You claim Ukraine can be labelled Nazi. Now, are you claiming that NATO nations can be defined as Nazi, as well?
“You forget America’s powerful aircraft carrier fleet (23)”
TN – No, I don’t. They’re sitting ducks for Russian submarines and hypersonic missiles. And they can’t act as ports.
“and of course what George Orwell called Airstrip One – the UK – with its extensive American airbases.”
TS – UK ports can also be vaporised. Ipso facto, no US tanks arriving in Europe.
I’m afraid you are a complete fantasist, perhaps you should spend more of your time playing “Call of Duty” and exercising your knuckles.
ALB – They are clarifying that figure she gave meant both dead and wounded.
“We have official evaluations by the General Staff, official evaluations by the commander-in-chief [Mr Zelensky], and they range from 10,000 to 12,500-13,000 killed,”
His estimates of Russian casualties are wildly exaggerated
The BBC’s Russian Service has established that at least 9,311 Russian soldiers of all ranks have been killed since the invasion on 24 February while the true death toll could be more than 18,600.
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