June 2023 › Forums › General discussion › Russian Tensions
- This topic has 4,842 replies, 35 voices, and was last updated 4 days, 2 hours ago by Thomas_More.
December 1, 2022 at 4:35 am #237165
NATO deindustrialisation.December 1, 2022 at 5:38 am #237167
Fortunately, the American GI doesn’t go into battle with a toilet seat.
**$276 billion** in planned spending on **weapons systems alone**
Two and half times more for just weapons than what Russia spends on its entire military defence budget.
Is Russia immune from false accounting?
“The US is mighty on paper or when fighting 3rd world guerilla armies but against a peer rival, not so much.”
And who is having the most success at Bakhmut? Russian regular forces or a convict army of mercenaries being used as cannon-fodder.
The very first sentence of your Rand link
“Premeditated war between the United States and China is very unlikely”December 1, 2022 at 5:44 am #237169robbo203Participant
While we are arguing the toss over which capitalist bloc has the greater manufacturing capacity to sustain the killing spree in Ukraine – NATO/Ukraine or Russia and its allies – the main point is being lost sight of
The Russian capitalist regime, because of its imperialist invasion of Ukraine, has triggered a war in which thousands of working-class lives have already been lost and unimaginable quantities of resources have been wasted – and for what? For some sordid capitalist struggle over whose strategic interests should prevail over some patch of land called “Ukraine”
Of course NATO and its proxy Ukraine are no less culpable. But anyone who imagines that “NATO deindustrialization” is not going to lead to NATO rearmament and stepped-up defense spending – and therefore yet more resources diverted away from schools, hospitals, and the like – is living in cloud cuckoo land
The stockpiles of weapons produced by the mass murder industries of both these capitalist blocs have been seriously depleted. But it strikes me as being almost obscene, not to say utterly irrelevant, talking about which bloc is better able to continue this stupid senseless capitalist conflict. It is completely missing the point – that whoever “wins” this war it is the workers of the world (and not just those residing in those arbitrary capitalist entities called “Russia” and “Ukraine”) who will have lost
December 1, 2022 at 6:14 am #237170
- This reply was modified 6 months ago by robbo203.
I mentioned already in a previous that American energy companies are profiteering from the sale of LNG to Europe.
The US arms industry as I also said earlier are gleeful at the anticipation of European countries boosting their defence spending.
If I recall the beginning of the war, France, Germany and US anticipated a swift Russian victory and America was preparing to fly Zelensky out of Kiev. Perhaps Zelensky read Grover Furr that when Poland’s government left, it gave USSR a legal excuse to invade so he wisely rejected the offer. The NATO eastern European countries (Hungary excepted) required little persuasion to support a proxy war.
Again, it seems it was not the US originally declared a proxy war but Boris Johnson who convinced Zelensky to fight and not capitulate.
Any suggestion that Western Europe will de-industrialise even with high energy prices is wildly exaggerated.
(Reuters) – Euro zone economic sentiment rebounded in November slightly more than expected, data showed on Tuesday, rising for the first time since the Russian invasion of Ukraine in February on more optimism among consumers and in services.
(Reuters) – Germany’s tax revenue jumped 6.1% to 57 billion euros ($58.35 billion) in October after two consecutive monthly falls
I could go through each eurozone nation but OECD predicts UK and Russia decline are similar
Russia’s economy has fallen into a recession, according to official data from Moscow. Its GDP fell by 4% in the third quarter of the year from a year ago, according to Rosstat, Russia’s statistics agency. This followed a 4.1% year-on-year decline in its second-quarter GDP.
Elvira Nabiullina, the country’s top central banker, said,”Yes, the situation can worsen, we understand this,” Nabiullina told Russian lawmakers adding it was necessary to restructure the economy.
While much of Europe is starting to recover UK and Russia are failing.
Is China doing any better?
China’s industrial firms saw overall profits industrial profits fell 3.0% in the first 10 months of 2022 from a year earlier despite the discounted prices it is getting from Russian oil and gas.December 1, 2022 at 9:04 am #237172
Fiona Hill has studied in-depth Putin, Russia, Ukraine and America. Her understanding of the politics involved shouldn’t be so casually dismissed.
In this clip she discusses language and surprisingly makes a parallel with Scotland – ie speaking the same language as a neighbouring country doesn’t ensure shared identity.December 1, 2022 at 9:24 am #237173
I have just read through the dreadfully written, poorly referenced, and at times nonsensical article written by “Natasha Wright” and linked to this forum by True Nacissist.
This has made me wonder, given the writing style, the unsubstantiated assertions, the uncritical Pro Putin style, etc. Is it possible that TN has been moonlighting from talking shite on this platform and is spreading his anti working class puke on another website, under a pseudonym!!!December 1, 2022 at 11:19 am #237174
Having now watched the other Fiona Hill clips I appreciate her professionalism in never straying too far from her area of expertise, the political dimension.
As an independent scholar and no longer an employee of the government, she has no axe to grind and can express herself freely.
Regards national identity, I was reminded of Putin’s essay where he argues Ukraine has always been a historical part of Holy Mother Russia.
Even after 300 years of union with England when Scots are asked who they want to win the World Cup most will answer Anybody But England.December 1, 2022 at 11:53 am #237175
“Fortunately, the American GI doesn’t go into battle with a toilet seat.”
The point is the amount of money spent on equipment is not an accurate reflection of value. If I spend $10,000 on renovating my bathroom and all I got is a new toilet seat, well I don’t have a very good bathroom.
“**$276 billion** in planned spending on **weapons systems alone**”
And if that money is frittered away on overpriced junk?
“Two and half times more than what Russia spends on its entire military defence budget.”
And yet it is the US’ proxy that is running out of equipment not Russia. Explain.
“Is Russia immune from false accounting?”
The proof of the pudding is in the tasting. There’s plenty of Russian pudding. Where’s the Ukraine’s?
“And who is having the most success at Bakhmut? Russian regular forces or a convict army of mercenaries being used as cannon-fodder.”
Erm, the only cannon fodder is on the other end of Russian artillery barrels. They’re called Ukrainians.
“The very first sentence of your Rand link
“Premeditated war between the United States and China is very unlikely””
Lol. Of course you only read the first sentence. You missed this bit…
“Technological advances in the ability to target opposing forces are creating conditions of conventional counterforce, whereby each side has the means to strike and degrade the other’s forces and, therefore, an incentive to do so promptly, if not first. This implies fierce early exchanges, with steep military losses on both sides, until one gains control. At present, Chinese losses would greatly exceed U.S. losses, and the gap would only grow as fighting persisted. But, by 2025, that gap could be much smaller.”
If the US doesn’t start a war with China by 2025 it might lose.December 1, 2022 at 11:58 am #237176
“While much of Europe is starting to recover UK and Russia are failing.”
My God, what a bunch of Malarkey. Europe’s headed for a friggin depression. Where do you find this crap?!!December 1, 2022 at 12:04 pm #237177
“**$276 billion** in planned spending on **weapons systems alone**”
TN replies “And if that money is frittered away on overpriced junk?”
But what if some of that $276 billion, for just one example, has been spent on 5th Generation fighter aircraft, and what if it buys 362 of these aircraft, and what if the opposing force only has 12? And what if 80 years of military history shows that air superiority is the crucial factor in modern warfare?
And another question you might ask yourself is:
“What is the motivation of some of those claiming NATO weakness and lack of weapons?”
Is there not a possibility of some of this coming from the agents of multinational arms manufacturers?December 1, 2022 at 1:52 pm #237178
““What is the motivation of some of those claiming NATO weakness and lack of weapons?””
They’re motivated by the truth. They’re scraping the bottom of the barrel to supply Ukraine. Not everything is a lie.December 1, 2022 at 2:45 pm #237179
TS -“And yet it is the US’ proxy that is running out of equipment not Russia”
Russia lost an estimated thousand of its T-90, T-80 and T-72 tanks and now using 50-year-old T-62s.
Who is scraping the barrel?
Didn’t I read that half of Ukraine’s armour force was captured from Russia during its retreats and abandoned its equipment making it the largest supplier of armaments to Ukraine?
Latest Defence Intelligence update on the situation in Ukraine – 7 October 2022
Find out more about the UK government's response: https://t.co/zxsxakKNtO
🇺🇦 #StandWithUkraine 🇺🇦 pic.twitter.com/pwIRUanlAg
— Ministry of Defence 🇬🇧 (@DefenceHQ) October 7, 2022
Raytheon announced new $1.2 Billion contract to deliver six National Advanced Surface to Air Missile System batteries for Ukraine.
I mention the economic data because of your scaremongering that the EU economy was on the verge of collapse or as you claim – de-industrialisation.
Is it a bed of roses? No. Germany has a decline of 0.2% next year after growing by 1.7% in 2022. But you prefer apocalyptic hyperbole
Russia’s recession from its own press release and I quoted its central bank director. The sanctions after being initially softened by the boost in oil and gas revenues are beginning to bite deep.
300,000 conscripted and 700,000 choosing exile has created a labour shortage
And children to be employed now by relaxing the restrictions on hiring them
Can i remind you of the Edwin Starr song – WARDecember 1, 2022 at 2:49 pm #237180December 1, 2022 at 2:56 pm #237181
Interesting that you have failed to answer the first part of the question!
So basically every source you quote is correct (including the demonstrably incorrect Grover Furr, the confused quasi Maoist Michael Hudson, who thinks that Minneapolis was a Trotskyist city and works in the 263rd best ranked university in the USA and Scott Ritter who left anyone intelligence circles 20 years ago and who was definitely out of touch with events whilst he was serving 18 months in custody after being found guilty for child sex offences)
In comparison to this any source quoted which is contrary to your view is, in your view, to be immediately rejected on the basis of ‘cos I say so”.
Going back to my first question, will the 12 Russian 5th Generation fighter aircraft shoot down the 362 similar US planes, just because you say so?December 2, 2022 at 1:39 am #237192MovimientoSocialistaParticipant
Communist Left about war in Ukraine
- This reply was modified 6 months ago by MovimientoSocialista.
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