Lew
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Bird: “Marx supported those who regarded it as possible to build socialism upon the Russian Mir (peasant commune).”
But only if the revolution in the West took place:
“If the Russian Revolution becomes the signal for a proletarian revolution in the West, so that both complement each other, the present Russian common ownership of land may serve as the starting point for a communist development” (Russian Preface to Communist Manifesto).
In other words, the material conditions for communism did not exist in the Russian peasant communes alone but only as part of a wider revolution.
“I think I’m right in saying that Douglas Home was never a member of the Conservative Party and was the last non-Tory Labour Prime Minister.”
I think you mean the last non-Tory, Tory Prime Minister.
Incidentally, the Liberals merged with the Social Democrats and became the Liberal Democrats in 1989, embracing “social democracy” in the process. Much was made of the radical (or as Roy Jenkins used to say “wadical”) nature of this change at the time.
So it could be argued that, since the SPGB’s name, objective and principles have remained unchanged sine its formation, it is entitled to claim that it is Britain’s 2nd oldest political party.
Some of it is covered in the second book review:
Book Reviews: ‘Where Do My Values Come From?’, ‘A Guide to Marx’s Capital’, & ‘No Local’
LBird: ‘Lew admits writing: “…accept maths and logic as objectively given.”’
For the third time, I wrote that in the post-capitalist future “people may decide to reject Bird’s prescription and accept maths and logic as objectively given.”
I’m finished with this nonsense. I had thought Bird had given an undertaking not to keep hijacking threads.
Lew wrote: “…must be objectively true.”
Who made this claim, Lew? I didn’t.
I made the claim, which I think the full post above makes clear.
‘Lew wrote: “…maths and logic as objectively given.”’
No, I wrote that in the post-capitalist future “people may decide to reject Bird’s prescription and accept maths and logic as objectively given.”
Once again Bird dodges the issue. For while he is happy for truth to be democratically decided in the future, what he says now must be objectively true. Otherwise what he says is meaningless. This is the paradox of the “post-truth” (or post-modernist) position.
LBird: Workers would need to discuss and decide upon which version(s) of ‘maths’ and ‘logic’ would be most suited to their own interests and purposes, before attempting to employ them
And, after due deliberation, people may decide to reject Bird’s prescription and accept maths and logic as objectively given.
LBird: Those wanting to leave ‘maths’ to the ‘experts’ are on the wrong political and philosophical road.
If only LBird would stop giving his ‘expert’ advice about what people in a post-capitalist society can and cannot do.
LBird: “No, Marx argued that humanly produced social conditions change social conditions.”
Yet again you don’t cite any evidence, and its a tautology anyway. Here is Marx:
“The mode of production of material life conditions the social, political and intellectual life process in general. It is not the consciousness of men that determines their being, but, on the contrary, their social being that determines their consciousness.”
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1859/critique-pol-economy/preface-abs.htmLBird: He didn’t separate ‘ideas’ from ‘conditions’.
Nobody has suggested that we should or can separate ideas from conditions.
LBird: We are the active ‘changer’ of ‘conditions’; we are not the ‘passive’ recipient of ‘active’ conditions.
Again, the WSM has not argued against this, and it would be rather pointless having a WSM if we did. I think you are conflating consciousness, ideas and mind.
“For Marx though, ‘mind’ is a socio-historical product, and its production can be changed by humans, which is why socialism is possible.”
Mind, or the collection of thoughts, is a social product. Without society there is no mind. There is no such thing as a physical, a biological, or a non-social mind. The ideas, or the thoughts, of any given epoch are determined in general by the social conditions of that epoch, which also includes relics of past ideas. As these conditions change so do the ideas, over a longer or shorter time.
“I wonder why you guys still think it’s worth contesting elections in the current climate? Surely there are better, and more cost effective ways of getting publicity? Like paying for a leaflet drop when there isn’t an election for example.”
Why would it be “more cost effective” to pay for a leaflet drop when there isn’t an election than when there is an election?
Lew
Windscribe is probably the best free VPN, though it does have a data limit:
https://windscribe.com/features/use-for-free
Lew
