Zionism and anti semitism

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This topic contains 131 replies, has 15 voices, and was last updated by  alanjjohnstone 2 days, 4 hours ago.

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  • #161958

    Dave T
    Participant

    Just read the review of the new pamphlet and thought it looks good especially the emphasis on opposing all forms of nationalism be it Zionist or the various Middle East ideologies. What was missing, hopefully not from the pamphlet, was the role that the Israeli working class must play in the overthrow of capitalism and the establishing of socialism.

    #166537

    alanjjohnstone
    Participant

    Is it anti-semitic to say there exists a very effective Zionist lobby at work?

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/11/cnn-fires-contributor-marc-lamont-hill-criticising-israel-181130061452765.html

    Marc Lamont Hill, a political commentator on CNN, had called for “a single secular democratic state for everyone” with a “free Palestine from the river to the sea” at a meeting at the UN marking the International Day of Solidarity with the Palestinian People.

    The Anti-Defamation League (ADL) said the “river to the sea” phrase was code for the destruction of Israel, adding that the annual UN event promoted “divisiveness and hate”.

    #167879

    alanjjohnstone
    Participant
    #169929

    alanjjohnstone
    Participant

    Four out of five Jews in the UK believe antisemitism is a major problem in British politics, the worst record within the EU, and nearly a third are considering leaving Britain out of fears for their safety, according to the world’s largest survey of Jewish people.

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/dec/10/britain-has-worst-record-for-antisemitism-in-europe-says-report

    #170244

    alanjjohnstone
    Participant

    Who is Netanyahu’s friend and who is his enemy

    https://www.dw.com/en/hungary-europes-champion-of-conspiracy-theories/a-46689822

    Anti-Semitic conspiracy theories are more prevalent in Hungary than we thought. That was a bit of a surprise to us. For instance, 44 percent of respondents agreed with the statement: “Jews want to rule the world.” Moreover, 49 percent agreed that Jews want to take control of the world’s financial institutions. 51 percent of those people we spoke with are convinced that US investment billionaire George Soros, a Hungarian-born Jew, has a plan to bring masses of refugees to Europe.

     

    #170343

    alanjjohnstone
    Participant

    https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/israel-allowed-criminalise-bds-181211090832254.html

    Proposed US legislation, known as the Israel AntiBoycott Act, would criminally penalise individuals, including companies or their employees who participate in international boycotts of Israel and the occupied territories.

    How long would it be before foreign companies who boycott Israel that does business with the US become criminalised?

    In addition to the proposed federal legislation, 26 US states have enacted anti-BDS laws, with legislation pending in 13 states.

    Sen Cory Booker is a co-sponsor of the anti-BDS bill. “We’ve seen the alarming rise in anti-Semitism in the United States and across the world in recent years manifest itself in many deeply concerning ways, including in the actions of foreign governments targeting Israel and the Israeli people,”

    Once more despite so-called guarantees in the IHRA anti-Israel is conflated with anti-Semitism.

    #170441

    Dave B
    Participant

     

    There was a ‘report’ in 2016 quoted from below;

     

    Government Response to Home Affairs Committee Report: ‘Anti-Semitism in the UK’

     

     

    Presented to Parliament by the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government by Command of Her Majesty

    December 2016

     

     

    We broadly accept the IHRA definition, but propose two additional clarifications to ensure that freedom of speech is maintained in the context of discourse about Israel and Palestine, without allowing antisemitism to permeate any debate. The definition should include the following statements:

     

    It is not antisemitic to criticise the Government of Israel, without additional evidence to suggest antisemitic intent.

     

    It is not antisemitic to hold the Israeli Government to the same standards as other liberal democracies, or to take a particular interest in the Israeli Government’s policies or actions, without additional evidence to suggest antisemitic intent.

     
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  • ‘Zionism’ as a concept remains a valid topic for academic and political debate, both within and outside Israel. The word ‘Zionist’ (or worse, ‘Zio’) as a term of abuse, however, has no place in a civilised society. It has been tarnished by its repeated use in antisemitic and aggressive contexts.
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    Antisemites frequently use the word ‘Zionist’ when they are in fact referring to Jews, whether in Israel or elsewhere. Those claiming to be “anti-Zionist, not antisemitic” should do so in the knowledge that 59% of British Jewish people consider themselves to be Zionists.

     

    If these individuals genuinely mean only to criticise the policies of the Government of Israel, and have no intention to offend British Jewish people, they should criticise “the Israeli Government”, and not “Zionists”. For the purposes of criminal or disciplinary investigations, use of the words ‘Zionist’ or ‘Zio’ in an accusatory or abusive context should be considered inflammatory and potentially antisemitic. This should be communicated by the Government and political parties to those responsible for determining whether or not an incident should be regarded as antisemitic.

     

    Response

     

    The Crown Prosecution Service will consider the words ‘Zionist’ or ‘Zio’ for inclusion as part of its current guidance for prosecutors. The guidance covers lessons from practice and reflects on the changing nature of language and terminology in relation to anti-Semitism. As with all terminology, consideration would be given to all the facts and the specific circumstances of its use.

     

    The rise of anti-Semitism 6. Police-recorded antisemitic crime is almost non-existent in some parts of England, as illustrated by the data provided as an Annex to this report. We question why some police forces, operating in counties in which thousands of Jewish people live, have recorded few or no antisemitic crimes. The NPCC should investigate the causes of this apparent underreporting and provide extra support, where needed, to police forces with less experience of investigating antisemitic incidents.

     
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  • It is concerning that the Crime Survey of England and Wales (CSEW) is not able to provide reliable baseline figures on the prevalence of self-reported experiences of antisemitic crime. The majority of British Jewish people live in Greater London, so a national sample would have to be prohibitively large in order to obtain reliable data on antisemitism. CST figures, while valuable, may reflect trends in reporting as well as overall prevalence. The Home Office and the Office for National Statistics should commission enhanced samples in Greater London and other areas with large Jewish populations, to ensure that the CSEW can collect reliable data on the prevalence of antisemitism.
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    I suppose at issue is this;

     

    Antisemites frequently use the word ‘Zionist’ when they are in fact referring to Jews, whether in Israel or elsewhere. Those claiming to be “anti-Zionist, not antisemitic” should do so in the knowledge that 59% of British Jewish people consider themselves to be Zionists.

     

    You could have also said;

     

    Anti Germans frequently use the word ‘Nazi’s’

     

    ….in an accusatory or abusive context….

     

    when they are in fact referring to German’s whether in Germany or elsewhere. Those claiming to be “anti- Nazi” , not Anti German should do so in the knowledge that 59% of Germans consider themselves to be Nazi’s.

     

    and that ;

     

    they should have criticized “the German government”, and not “Nazi’s”

     

    if that sounds outrageous, then;

     

     

     

    “….for hosting an anti-racism conference in 2010 at which a speaker made a comparison between Israel’s treatment of Palestinians and the Nazis’ treatment of Jews. That violated another of the IHRA examples.

     

     

    But again, what none of these anti-semitism warriors has wanted to highlight is that the speaker given a platform at the conference was the late Hajo Meyer, a Jewish Holocaust survivor who dedicated his later years to supporting Palestinian rights. Who, if not Meyer, deserved the right to make such a comparison? And to imply that he was an anti-semite because he prioritised Palestinian rights over the preservation of Israel’s privileges for Jews is truly contemptible…….”

     

     

     

    https://www.jonathan-cook.net/blog/2018-08-08/labour-crisis-israel-anti-semitism/

     

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Cook

     

     

    Donning a ‘left-wing’ costume.

     

    They have a ‘prejudicial’ principles against discrimination against ethnic and ‘racial’ groups.

     

    For them it axiomatic to criticize Zionism.

     

    The BBC and the ‘Guardians’ of the Deep State have an interest in undermining the Corbynistas.

     

    As much as the threat to US lead foreign policy as any left orientated economic policy changes.

     

    As with their selective and deceit by omission reporting of recent events in Brazil,

    Venezuela and Syria.

     

    Real Anti Semitism in the UK is of course a load of bullocks and you have to look very hard at the fringe far right to find it.

     

    I worked in a factory near Harpurhey in the 1980’s and still do in fact.

     

    That was North Manchester ‘heart of darkness’ when it came to racism and Bernard Manning country; an interesting character perhaps.

     

    There was anti ‘Afro-Carribean’ and ‘anti Asian hard racism there then.

     

    The sort of demographic of the employee catchment area.

     

    All the way up to the top; never mind middle management.

     

    Not that there was many that worked there.

     

    The factory manager used the ‘N’ word, in its common meaning, at a works social at the table I was so happened to be sat at in front of about 20 people.

     

    He came over to our table and was referring a young machine operator who rose up due to his talent and intelligence.

     

    There was a non religious ‘jewish’ person who worked there as well and he had ‘jewish’ name, was known to be of ‘jewish’ ethnicity and although I hate to say it but ‘looked’ ‘jewish’.

     

    Nobody ever gave him a hard time over it.

     

    I have never had any personal first hand experience of anti-semitism.

#173149

alanjjohnstone
Participant
#174384

alanjjohnstone
Participant
#174649

alanjjohnstone
Participant

<p>Wiesenthal Top Ten anti-semites</p><p>http://www.wiesenthal.com/atf/cf/%7B54d385e6-f1b9-4e9f-8e94-890c3e6dd277%7D/TOP-TEN_2018REPORT.PDF</p><p>in at Number 4 – Corbyn</p><p>Number 5 – The United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine</p><p>Number 6 –  Airbnb</p><p>Number 7 – a German bank called the Bank for Social Economy</p><p>Number 8 – Bishop Gayle Harris</p><p>Number 9 – Sweden’s  Karolinska University Hospital</p><p>And at Number 10 Pink Floyd’s Roger Waters</p><p>Reasons for labelling the above antisemitic at the link</p>

#175614

alanjjohnstone
Participant

In a lengthy article, Jonathan Cook, does a fair summary of the campaign to vilify Corbyn as an anti-semite.

https://www.middleeasteye.net/columns/jewish-fears-corbyn-fuelled-anti-semitism-are-not-what-they-seem-162129779

Too long to cite extracts except to say it highlights Israeli racism.

Over half of respondents said they agreed to some extent with the statement: “Most Jews are better than most non-Jews because they were born Jews.

Seventy-four percent of respondents said they get at least a little disturbed by hearing conversation in Arabic in public.

Another 88% of respondents said they would be disturbed to some degree if their son were to befriend an Arab girl. The number climbed to 90% when respondents were asked about their daughter befriending an Arab boy.

Between 70-80% — said they knew “very little” or “nothing at all” about the Armenian, Cambodian or Rwandan genocides.

According to the poll, secular Israelis are far more tolerant of Arabs than religious Israelis. The results indicated the more religious the respondent, the more likely they were to reject the non-Jewish minority.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/new-poll-shows-strong-anti-arab-sentiment-among-israeli-jews/

#176458

alanjjohnstone
Participant

https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/zionist-fallacy-jewish-supremacy-190108202804743.html

“To maintain this abusive, white supremacist dynamic, Zionist propagandists have promoted the anti-Semitic fallacy that Israel is a Jewish state, which represents Judaism and thus all Jews. This fundamental canard is at the root of Zionist propaganda (aka Hasbara), galvanising support for Israeli settler colonialism and attacking anti-colonial resistance. The logical outcome of this fallacy erroneously determines that critique of Zionism/Israel is necessarily anti-Semitic. Successive Israeli governments have employed this trope as a talking point in order to sabotage critique”

#176482

alanjjohnstone
Participant

170,000 antisemitic Google searches are made in the UK every year, with 10% of them involving violent phrases such as “Jews must die” or “kill Jews”, research has revealed.

Antisemitic searches are higher in Wales than in any other part of the UK by proportion of the population, and lowest in Scotland.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/jan/11/uk-thousands-antisemitic-google-searches-per-year-research

#176494

Dave Chesham
Participant
#176525

Lew
Participant

https://telegra.ph/

This appears to be a fake news site.

Lew

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