The new recession is arriving?

November 2020 Forums General discussion The new recession is arriving?

Viewing 15 posts - 121 through 135 (of 190 total)
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  • #197408
    Lew
    Participant

    Don’t be put off by the Guardian headline. The article indicates the economics of the cause. For instance:

    “Starting in the 1990s, as part of its economic transformation, China ramped up its food production systems to industrial scale. One side effect of this, as anthropologists Lyle Fearnley and Christos Lynteris have documented, was that smallholding farmers were undercut and pushed out of the livestock industry. Searching for a new way to earn a living, some of them turned to farming “wild” species that had previously been eaten for subsistence only. Wild food was formalised as a sector, and was increasingly branded as a luxury product. But the smallholders weren’t only pushed out economically. As industrial farming concerns took up more and more land, these small-scale farmers were pushed out geographically too – closer to uncultivable zones. Closer to the edge of the forest, that is, where bats and the viruses that infect them lurk. The density and frequency of contacts at that first interface increased, and hence, so did the risk of a spillover.”

    #197421
    ALB
    Participant

    I am not arguing that the pandemic has nothing to do with capitalism and the factory farming method of production it has adopted as cheaper and more profitable. I am sure a good case for this can be made out.

    My point is that this is something outside the system’s internal workings which result in the boom/slump cycle — the pursuit of profits leading to overproduction in a key sector and the consequent cutback in its production having a knock-on effect on the rest of the economy  resulting in  a generalised slump in production (and slump creating the conditions for an eventual resumption of production). Such slumps are caused by the internal workings of capitalism and so are “endogenous”.

    A pandemic sparked off by factory farming (or whatever) is not part of the operation of the capitalist economy that leads to regularly occurring falls in production. A slump caused by this has a cause outside this and so will have been caused “exogenously”.

    Saying this is not to let capitalism off the hook for causing this external factor but merely to classify a slump it causes as different from “normal” slumps resulting from the way the capitalist economic system works.

    #197422
    Lew
    Participant

    Fair enough – this does not conform to the classic Marxian account of crises and recessions. But if it is found that capital accumulation is an important factor in the creation of the Coranavirus, and it is this which has caused the domino effect of a recession, then I don’t think it is accurate to say that this process is exogenous to capitalism.

    #197535
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/pipeline-protest-laws-coronavirus_n_5e7e7570c5b6256a7a2aab41?utm_campaign=Hot%20News&utm_source=hs_email&utm_medium=email&utm_content=85444028&_hsenc=p2ANqtz–2tdG-SSz6X2kZh8GMKtdxvn3ZAOY2W7mKBkHvK7LlDBc420kFR6R5lI7Ta3dn10_eSrBntTzqyM6koM_K2NHBqcqzVw&_hsmi=85444028. Soon peoples are going to see who the real enemy is, and understand that the poor Mexican and Central American is not the real enemy. The state is going to show its character as an organ of oppression, repression and domination instead of the romantic idea of the institution  of the peoples

    #197538
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    #197539
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Hungry peoples in the streets of Bogota Colombia protesting against the government

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hgAls2WEnU&feature=youtu.be

    #197540
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    #197541
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    #198109
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Sanders: Next relief bill must pay everyone $2,000 per month

    Bernie Sanders requests $2,000 per  month for USA workers

    #198110
    alanjjohnstone
    Participant

    Indeed because he is still in the Senate (unlike Biden), Sanders is acting “presidential” with definite proposals.

    If the time-line had been different, I wonder if those states that voted in the primaries for the very obvious inept Biden would do so again.

    The main plank of Sanders’s platform, Medicare For All, is resonating even stronger now.

    #198113
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    #198116
    robbo203
    Participant

    Predictable I guess. The limits of Sander’s vision is a humanised form of capitalism. Now he is discovering that, to keep capitalism ticking over in any form, certain unpalatable measures have to be taken that favour the interests of the capitalists as against those of the workers

    Sanders Voted for the Latest Corporate Bailout: What This Reveals for Socialists

     

    #198117
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Whoever does not see that Bernie Sanders is just a capitalist reformer and a social democrat does not understand how capitalism operates. The policy of the  lesser evil has never worked

    The other point is that capitalism can not be reformed, and every reform prepares the condition for the next crisis. Capitalism must be replaced for a society of social production administered by the world working class, there is not a leader able to resolve our problem

    Everything that is taking place right now is just a product of several capitalist reforms, and they will try to reverse the course of the situation, but they would be falling back into another crisis.

    What Robb203  wrote  above is correct, capitalism can not be humanized as we said in this forum to some supporters of Donald Trump,  that he would be forced to follow the logic of capitalism, and we were correct because that is what he is doing, and he trying to beat a dead horse, the XXI century is the century of  Chinese capitalism

    #198176
    alanjjohnstone
    Participant

    An upbeat optimistic report on the economy

    https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-economy-breakingvi/breakingviews-hadas-beware-of-excessive-economic-gloom-idUKKBN21Q1SW

    Things ain’t that bad…capitalism can recover

     

    #198190
    alanjjohnstone
    Participant

    As we all suspected, the recession was arriving before the coronavirus came on the scene.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/apr/09/uk-economy-already-flatlining-before-coronavirus-figures-reveal

    “The British economy went into reverse in February as GDP growth declined by 0.1%, even before the onset of the coronavirus pandemic that brought the country to a halt.”

    The general secretary of trade union body the TUC, Frances O’Grady, said: “Even before the coronavirus crisis hit, our economy needed a change of direction.”

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