alanjjohnstone
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The Left Nationalists via Jim Sillars hit backs Understandable why pro-business Salmond side-lines a one-time ally.Nationalisation, new employment and redundacy laws and boycotts of retailers.http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/day-of-reckoning-post-yes-vote-says-jim-sillars-1-3539754
Quote:“This referendum is about power, and when we get a Yes majority, we will use that power for a day of reckoning with BP and the banks. The heads of these companies are rich men, in cahoots with a rich English Tory Prime Minister, to keep Scotland’s poor, poorer through lies and distortions. The power they have now to subvert our democracy will come to an end with a Yes . BP, in an independent Scotland, will need to learn the meaning of nationalisation, in part or in whole, as it has in other countries who have not been as soft as we have forced to be. We will be the masters of the oil fields, not BP or any other of the majors.”There has been in recent days a lot of comparisons made with the Catalan nationalists but little analysis of Catalan politics. Catalan independence appears to be driven by the right wing, and the father of Catalan nationalism is Jordi Pujol is now convicted of corruption.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordi_Pujol_i_Soleyhttp://www.economist.com/news/europe/21613309-jordi-pujols-confession-undermines-catalans-hopes-independence-scandal-cataloniaThe current Catalan leader Artur Mas, main plank is that the region is subsidising the poorer regions of Spain. Now hows that for workers solidarity!!The assumption that any future Scotland may be "liberal" is merely guess-work, just as the examples being offered by the Irish Republic demonstrates. And i think both the Czech and Slovakia republics have grown right-wing in that have very anti-Roma attitudes.
Robert Fisk on the Irish/Scottish independence comparisons http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/scottish-independence-ireland-since-1919-is-a-lesson-for-scotland-in-what-a-yes-vote-means-9727596.html
Quote:So if the Yes voters win, my guess is the Scots will insist they are independent while knowing they are not. And the British will claim that the Scots are still British at heart. And go on doing what they’ve always done: publish the work of Irish and Scots poets in anthologies of “English poetry”.ALB, i think going down what you call the economistic road of comparing the immediate material benefits of Yes or No for individual workers is the wrong one. (Anyway its all hypothetical because our activity was sadly minimal)The comparison with Iceland is a bit risky since many applauded the fact that they declined to bail out the banks and endeavoured to bring criminal charges against the bankers. While Ireland was part of the Euro and were bailed out by those, the difference between UK welfare cuts and Irish cuts is wafer thin. As Matt said on my other non-economic policies…foreign affairs, nuclear weapons, immigration and energy… SNP attracts the more "radical" voter and as he said is now positioned left of Labour. I do personally think it is scare tactics being used…rather than serious consequences for Scotland, the negative effects may well be more important for the UK rump, , such as a speculated drop of 15% in the value of sterling if it is a Yes…and that scares ALL investors in the GB yet the Unionists are trying to instil the fear of uncertainty in only a part of the population – those north of the border. I don't think things will be the same for English or Welsh folk. And the real fear of the English Left is the prospect of eternal Tory rule. Latest report in the Independent is that the new Miliband government after the next election drops to a minority government without Scots MPs.Our position which we did apply to our campaign was the correct one …a broader principled long term response based upon the class analysis of rejection of working class alliance with a section of our ruling class and regardless of the vote result – nothing changes for the majority.Latest poll is 4% (less perhaps when the error margin) for the No but it is going to be to the wire. The spring back of the don't knows but veering to the No has passed with the Yes result poll in the Sunday Times and visits from the party leaders and the remaining don't knows i think may well be potential Yesses…Imagine if our abstention/spoiled ballot paper had been full scale…political attention of the media may well have been directed towards ourselves to influence the vote outcome. As i said if a few stickers resulted in substantial feedback…a larger intervention by ourselves may have highlighted our existance even more. Matt's comment about the WSM title and stickers to promote it to younger generation is also to be supported in the post-referendum days which may see a lot of deflated Yes supporters in search for an alternative New Jerusalem rather than continuing to campaign for a New Scotland.
I think there is now a concerted attempt by the British Establishment to create a sense of fear. The Treasury illegally leaked the RSB information to the media.But this Guardian report offers another version of the financial consequences for investorshttp://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/sep/11/aberdeen-asset-management-boss-backs-independent-scotland
Quote:An independent Scotland would be a big success, according to the head of the country's largest asset manager. Martin Gilbert, chief executive of Aberdeen Asset Management, said Scotland could prosper regardless of the outcome of the referendum next week…Sir Angus Grossart, chairman of Noble Grossart merchant bank, who suggested in the Financial Times that the impact of the referendum on the markets had been "severely overstated"As Adam said, it's an intra-capitalist dispute. In most of my blog posts i have avoided the temptation to argue upon either the pro- or anti- reformist benefits case, the economistic debate, but kept concentrating on the working class unity and solidarity issue.
Quote:I am looking forward to seeing the look on his face when he loses.I can't say i am looking forward to the smug expressions of Cameron or Miliband if the No vote prevails. But as a horse-racing gambler Salmond will be accustomed to putting on a brave face when he loses so i think you will be disappointed. I think it will be defiance…"now deliver those promises you kept making"…which i doubt will really materialise and will be drasticlly watered down.I have a different attitude from yourself…Salmond is quite good at put downs for those so-called neutral reporters of the BBC.There was campaign picture from the Yes campaign that tried to present them as internationalists…YES in umpteen languages, representing the migrant part of Scotland…so i am not sure that your characterisation of him as a nasty little nationalist is quite accurate compared with the proven xenophobic nastiness of Cameron and the aspiring nasty nationalism of Miliband's Labour.
Quote:The nucleus of the political organisation exists now in the Socialist Party of Great Britain.Do members still stand by this statement? Do we expect the working class in their masses to muster under our banner? If we don't, just what do we envisage the socialist movement to be and our particular role within it?However, this is derailing from the question of the exercise of democracy inside a socialist society to the issue of the means that we achieve socialism. I think it re-states in its own words what i have said previously.
Quote:the future economic organisation will be is really guess-work now and is only of small importanceMy only caveat would be that i would qulify it "the future economic and civic organisation is guess work now"
Hmmmm?? ..Yet another thread started named after LBird.He certainly has had the effect of getting people to consider their ideas and re-argue them and that can only be good for the movement.
Considering the very limited activity of the party in the referendum, the impact of so few stickers, reflects the value of such a method to convey our message.Perhaps we should produce several different forms of stickers for comrades to begin sticking up nationwide…Would it be the campaigns committee responsibility…or publications…? The SSP supporter again makes the assumption that post-independence policy is is not changeable and will always be the current SNP platform. She also ignores the fact that the newly independent Scotland is a part of Fortress Europe and therefore a participant in refugee blockades by Frontex.
The case presented by the SLP against a parliament in socialism is not simply one of power but also of competence.
Quote:when Labour elects candidates to power these represent geographical areas, i.e., constituencies, which are in no way connected with the industrial functions of society. Political representation, therefore, cannot solve the real problem of society, which is the industrial organisation of the community. The S.L.P. contends that the industrial problems of society will never be solved until the industrially organised workers, representing every phase of industrial and agricultural activity, band themselves together into a class union and elect their own local and national industrial administrative councils. These councils will be organically and functionally adapted to organise and control industry on behalf of every worker in the community. Around such a social structure would spring up committees which would serve the social and cultural wants of every individual in society. Such would be the basis of the Soviet Republic.But ALB is well aware of this since he transcribed the article for the internethttps://www.marxists.org/archive/paul-william/articles/1918/11/melting.htmI think there is also some ambiguity with the above – how can class-less socialism possess a class union?!! i think it should read "Such would be the basis of creating the Soviet Republic"But i think the core of the argument…that Parliament's remit as a decision making body and how it is selected are not fully compatable. While we accept the parallel course of political struggle…parliamentary and extra-parliamentary, i don't think this will also apply after the successful revolution…parliament in any recognisable form will not have a function and many alternatives to it in a plethora of variants will function, some will be geographic and the areas i feel will not reflect current countries (or even counties), some industrial and perhaps cultural too.
The promise of the oil that even the SNP are not promising
Quote:Britain missed out on a £74 billion windfall in oil revenues in just six years, from 2002 till 2008, compared to Norway's fiscal regime. An independent Scotland could choose not to concede to the corporate lobby, and replicate the Norwegian ownership and tax model.Some £74 billion over six years is a vast amount of money. Instead of boosting corporate profits, it could provide Scotland with 10 new mega-hospitals like the South Glasgow Hospital and 1,000 new GP clinics, with 10,000 new doctors and 20,000 new nurses to staff them. It could also fund a renewable energy project in every community, a community centre in every village and a solar panel on every home, to enable a decentralised and democratically-owned energy system. Or even a high-speed rail between Edinburgh and Glasgow, 10 new railway lines in Scotland and free local bus services. Or perhaps even free state childcare for pre-schoolers, a return to grants for higher education students and a citizens' income for all Scottish residents of £5,200 per year.This list sounds almost fantastical, yet these calculations are based on overestimates and leaves a 20 percent contingency. It seems unimaginable because our imagination has been effectively colonised by neoliberal power. We forget what is possible when public resources are used for public benefit.This is what i have been waitig for…what do the bookies sayhttp://www.theguardian.com/politics/shortcuts/2014/sep/09/scottish-independence-bookies-yes-campaign-indyref-no
Gnome, i cannot accept the founders of the SPGB determined its title from an atlas or history book (unless you can provide the necessary transcript of the debate) and it is not "fairly certain" as you claim (unless again you ahve some sort of record of it.)This argument on geography, which i often use myself, is an a posteriori argument to counter the "anti-imperialist and nationalist" leftists criticisms of the Party. In 1904 such a situation didn't relly exist the SLP's full consititutional title was SLP of GB, as was the CPGB. I think the original name was a political decision to conform with the political boundaries of the then Great Britain state, not its geographic features, hence the dismissal of the alternative suggestion "Great Britain and Ireland" which itself was making some sort of implied political statement on Irish independence.But you are right, it does pre-date the 1707 union, i believe James the 6th (the 1st of England) used the term with the union of the crowns. Although now we have a disagreement on what is Little Britain…Ireland or Brittany? Geography is always political…"Continental Europe"…Is it not now called Euro-Asia by some geographers and the term Europe having more political assumptions.But this is all a digression.As ALB said the party branches in Scotland may well opt for another name for the party for electoral purposes if independence comes and that decision will not be based upon geography but on political implications. The Irish example is appropriate, "dual-party membership", more in name than in reality until the Scottish membership numbers swell and deserves perhaps a re-organisation and restructuring. World Socialist Party (Scotland) would be my preference. However, i simpy cannot accept that at some time in the future, the creation of a fully integrated World Socialist Movement where the various national parties form merely component parts will not encourage the rest of the party dropping of the GB and adoption of the WSP. But just to add a bit of stirring up……if independence comes, does the party resolution about not sending cash abroad require amending Will it raise our own version of the Tam Dalyell West Lothian question in regards to party votes on policies applying either to solely England and Wales or Scotland
