alanjjohnstone
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"Why not join the odyssey that seeks for truth? I promise you it's better than grasping hold of one aspect of the truth, then digging in and aggressively defending it against allcomers."I've been on that trip, Stuart, and eventually returned to home-port.If you follow the other threads you'll know i'm intent upon making sure that it is not merely a safe harbour but a embarkation point for new challenges. But unlike yourself, i have no desire to travel by myself and seek to bring others along on that journey…We simply just need to agree the route and the intinerary….necessay to avoid aimless meandering and wandering. Yes i am slightly anti-intellectuals in my attitudes and rarely give them the deference those such as Mason no doubt deserve. I shall humble myself before him if you so deem it a requisite for understanding the world.
It means, Stuart, as the International says "We want no condescending saviorsTo rule us from their judgement hallWe workers ask not for their favours"Keep waiting for your Messiah, Stuart, jumping ships and leaping on band-wagons on your seemingly endless oddyssy in search for the leader and or the party that you think gives you the truth you seek.It may well be a long journey that will take a long time …but please set off in the right direction…not go back-tracking down the roads that have already been proved to be dead-ends. I think the Communist Manifesto listed several political trends of the time. Feudal Socialism, Petty-Bourgeois Socialism etc etc and now we have Post Capitalist 'Socialism' aka Mason…re-defining capitalism to make it ever so radical sounding but which doesn not take us one step closer towards an actual new society…Wolff and Alperovitz have been in their own way doing much the same. I disagree that the article did not address today's problems and merely repeated what you call sloganeering of dogma.As the article said
Quote:Some things can’t be replicated in pixels or even by a 3-D printer. Clothing, food, housing, fuel and computers can only be replicated by employing the labor power of exploited workers. Those things are not losing value. Exploitation in the process of production is still at the heart of the global economy. And as long as the value produced by workers is being appropriated and accumulated by capitalists, then we are still in capitalism. Only a self-serving Silicon Valley dreamer or a severely deluded business journalist can argue, with a straight face, that the falling price of ebooks translates into everyone on the planet being able to have plenty of free food. Perhaps Paul Mason ought to do a little experiment on himself: stay in a room with unlimited information. When he gets hungry, he can eat it. He asserts that in today’s economy there is a reduced need for work. This statement is a tremendous insult to the workers in Bangladesh who sewed his shirt, the workers in China who assembled his phone, the workers in Mexico who picked the strawberries for his breakfast, the millions of workers all over the world who produce everything else he so thoughtlessly uses.Mason has presented the myopic view with no historic context …and he is the one covering its shortcomings with ideological rhetoric and refusing to look at the world as it is and how it is developing.
I think this article effectively pricks the Mason bubblehttp://skewednews.net/index.php/2015/07/22/called-post-capitalism-just-another-crappy-capitalist-snowjob/
Quote:Let’s see what remedies many of them point to: “collaborative commons,” “workplace democracy,” “workers’ co-ops,” “mutual aid,” the “sharing economy.” These sound good, and indeed some of them may be positive and necessary steps toward a non-capitalist mode of production. But they are just that—steps—and it’s a mistake to confuse them with the path as a whole. Unless the framework of capitalism is broken entirely, they circle back to the beginning every time. Capitalism is not damaged simply because we engage in activity that is cooperative, non-hierarchical, collaborative or “socialistic.”…only a fool (or a well-paid content provider) could possibly confuse “abolishing the wage system” with “wages dwindling to nothing….Clothing, food, housing, fuel and computers can only be replicated by employing the labor power of exploited workers. Those things are not losing value. Exploitation in the process of production is still at the heart of the global economy. And as long as the value produced by workers is being appropriated and accumulated by capitalists, then we are still in capitalism.”And to answer Stuart's question that sort of implies a very passive role for people in the transformation of society.
Quote:There is no easy way out. We need to emancipate ourselves from it through struggle; we need to destroy it. The good news is that it is possible to destroy it. It is the producers of material value—the working class—who are in a position to lead all of us out of capitalism. Their hands are on the means of production—factories and land and infrastructure. By taking it out of the hands of capitalists, they free it so it can be used by all to meet the needs of all, for a real common good.Kropotkin on the HudsonStory of a co-ophttp://inthesetimes.org/article/18159/kropotkin-on-the-hudson
Guardian report of the knock-on effecthttp://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/jul/22/apple-share-price-chinese-economy-mining-commodity
Is the Labour Party a workers' party, despite the claims and what people say? Hasn't that always been the debate since it formed? And hasn't the question been answered repeatedly?No doubt Bernie Sanders also considers the Democratic Party to be a party of the workers. Wouldn't it be interesting to have Sanders as president and Corbyn as prime minister?…Or will they learn from Tspiras that you cannot manage capitalism in the interest of the workers… If we do not demand utopia and present it as an immediate achievable goal, it will always be an unrealisable dream.I'm fond of the James Connolly's quote "Our demands most moderate are – We only want the Earth!"
This may be of interest to you Meel – a report of a talk given by the late Pieter Lawrence on the topic of law and socialismhttp://socialismoryourmoneyback.blogspot.com/2012/05/socialism-and-law.html
This is worth a read by Yanis Varoufakis about the dilemma of trying to manage capitalism when the cards are stacked against you.http://www.thepressproject.gr/details_en.php?aid=79355
I have to agree with Gnome on this. They have shown an example for us all to try and take up. We need to show a presence otherwise how can we be noticed. At one time it was through open air meetings with captivating speakers that people would often first encounter us. Most branches met weekly. Many in addition held indoor public meetings. The Standard was often sold on street corners or around the pubs with each new issue.Now, as an attempt as a substitute, i think KSRB are on the right lines with their regular steet stalls. We should perhaps be thinking of how these can be made more effective and eye-catching to draw visitors and permit conversations to begin. (Perhaps having a banner flying high for workers to actually muster under).We need to explore ways on how to follow up and again KSRB are using the technique of acquiring email contact lists to keep the inquirers updated on activities.Street stalls are, however, a fair weather venture. We also need ideas for the cold, windy short days of winter. Unfortunately for other branches actual physical contact is often just a monthly (even bi-monthly) branch meeting, taken up mostly with party business. Other branches try to hold regular meetings devoted solely to discussion and these offer a more positive invite for those expressing an interest in learning more.I think EARB idea of making branch meetings a social event with a collective meal and then showing a movie is helpful in attracting not only visitors but even the frequently absent members of branches. In regards to freshers week, usually stalls at those are quite expensive as i found by googling. Nevertheless, the many student newspapers offer advertising at better rates than the normal press so that too should be explored.Once more, our experience during the election was that stickers were a useful tool and something members could do singly or in a group. I'm sure it has been suggested several times in the past but little done about it. A series of stickers, IMHO, should be designed and made available. We are not talking about breaking the bank with that sort of investment and certainly nothing beyond our technical abilities.Does anyone know if our media committee re-posted the BBC report and forwarded Cde Buick's comments as a press release to our extensive media list rather than waiting for some of them to pick up the story and perhaps distort it? In relation to the internet, I think each branch should have their own blog using local news and events to comment upon. From doing the SOYMB blog i find that many news stories have the statistics and information broken down to a local level and if used by branches it would give that local touch that people can connect with. When there is no news-worthy story or fact or quote that can be used, a brief educational post can suffice to keep the blog active. I leave the Facebook and Twitter participants to suggest better ways we can increase our followers and likes on those.
Quote:ALB – alanjjohnstone wrote: I'm no doubt the Private Frazer of the party, full of doom and gloom,"A German study last month revealed that older adults who held a dim view of their futures lived longer and healthier lives than those who had rosy outlooks." http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/health-and-fitness/health/feeling-down-you-should-consider-the-benefits-of-pessimism/article10098340/
An update report on the implementation of "democratic confederalism" in Rojava http://www.countercurrents.org/omrani190715.htm
"We" meaning the working class as in LBird's democratic vote which was the topic i was trying to answer I did qualify that acceptance and rejection of scientific consensus can be either rational or irrational and that was going way back in the argument to the sun and earth revolving …The fact that food corporations are reluctant to label GMO food is i believe evidence that they know where public opinion lies and people will vote with their money (in reply to SP)…or as i said …vote with their feet.
Quote:Every scientific advance makes socialism all the more plausible. Genetic modification of crops in particular opens up immense possibilities.my emphasisHmmm…??The development of civilisation-destroying nuclear weapons i think make the possiblity of not achieving socialism a plausibility. We now also face the development of technology presenting the choice of climate change or system change. I'm not a proponent that capitalism is capable of regulation to counter the current prevailing trend. Perhaps some members believe that capitalism will be able to reverse it and save the planet. I have heard that it may as in the case of CFC legislation and the ozone. The expansion of GMO crops within capitalism is a very different proposition from the development and application of them in socialism, as you say.Our political position should be based on the effects of technology as used by capitalist institutions in the here and now, not wishful thinking of how it could be used in socialism. I am sure super-surveillance of the individual with implanted chips can have many benefits in a benign society eg monitoring health or searching for lost little children, but i don't think Cheltenham GCHQ should in capitalism be given that power of technology. It is not Luddism to desire restraint on certain technology because of the simple fact that we already have and have had for a long time the production capability of implementing socialism and ii am not talking about the bread and butter basics for it. But i do think some members want the icing on the cake too…
According to this Independent article, the knives are already being sharpened to stab Corbyn in the back if he is electedhttp://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/jeremy-corbyn-labour-mps-are-plotting-a-coup-against-the-potential-leader-if-he-is-elected-10399272.htmlBut he will have the SNP support.
Don't we already do much of this democratic " truth" to the distaste of scientists, SP.We are rejecting their consensus on the safety of GMO, on fracking and nuclear energy through parliamentary legislation.We accept the truth of climate change but don't act upon it. We accept by majority decision the scientific position on other issues…vaccination and evidence based medicine …much to the distaste of some alternative health quacks.People vote with their feet, as often as not as irrationally as rational. Yes to a degree we choose what is scientific truth.Quantum theory is still basically little different from magic to me …And as one quantum physicists said …if you say you understand it, you don't — i apply that scientific principle to a lot of things !!!
