alanjjohnstone
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I'm not so sure the block facility is a wise one.How easy it will be if instead of debating and discussing and actually responding to criticism, one simply turns a deaf ear to conflicting opinion and perhaps pay no heed to actual contrary evidence by blocking. Are we not encouraging a tendency of listening only to the converted rather than demanding that we all engage with one another, regardless of whether we agree or not.You pick and choose who you wish to listen to, and as we frequently make comparisons with public meetings, that can happen at those…the whole audience is involved in listening to a contribution or re-buttal. If the reason for blocking happens to be one of personal animousity or an on-going feud then i think the moderator has presently sufficient powers to deter this.
As i have not read anything by Pinker except for the original article you link to, you well may know more than myself. I just have a gut reaction from the article. It is all down to the use of statistics, isn't it? "The Uppsala Conflict Data Program(UCDP) defines it as a conflict between a government and a rebel force which verifiably kills at least a thousand soldiers and civilians a year." Thus the Northern Ireland civil war was no civil war since its death rate does not meet this criteria. As i mentioned in my earlier reply he does not include the many low-intensity conflicts in India, for instance, which requires the military occupation and the militarisation of whole regions. For a tourist to visit Assam region in North East India for instance a special permit is required because of rebel activity. Does the reality on the ground not define if conflict exists? But Pinker says there is no conflict…according to the methodology he applies. I don't have the facts at hand but if troop battle deaths are reduced it is compensated by a definite increase in civilan casualty rates. War in the last century or so is no longer about combatants only. And can we only discuss the effects of war as battle deaths and not the accompanying hunger and disease it causes from destruction of infrastructure. Denial of humanitarian aid has become a military tactic in many places…eg Gaza blockade…Alan Kurdi wasn't a battle death…but it was the direct result of the battle that he drowned because he was fleeing from it. Does he figure in the statistic rules of academia?I accept that the media coverage presents a false sense of insecurity. The blog post article refers to this. i have also seen figures comparing American and Canadian news items on crime and the correlation is that the US media reports it far more than Canada, even if the numbers aren't much different and that this creates an air of fear in America which perhaps explains their compulsion to arm themselves against a largely imaginary threat. I don't think you also took on board that i don't suggest that the world is far from peaceful , the blog again explains we are mostly a peaceful people and that to create the psychological reasoning for violence the ruling class has to evoke propaganda and then actually train killers. Yugoslavia is an example where long-past national rivalries were resurrected by local media and then a campaign of lies told to provoke and justify violence.In my reply, i also mentioned that our case is not purely based on the number of wars but that resources are diverted and wasted to the threat of war. Has this gone down or grown? Which leads us on to robotic wars, which of course another issue for another time. The Socialist Standard has reviewed Pinker a few timeshttp://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/socialist-standard/2010s/2013/no-1311-november-2013/steven-pinker-clarifies-his-opposition-socialismhttp://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/socialist-standard/2010s/2013/no-1311-november-2013/book-reviews-better-angels-our-nature-failure-lahttp://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/socialist-standard/2000s/2003/no-1184-april-2003/human-nature-and-human-behaviourhttp://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/socialist-standard/2010s/2013/no-1311-november-2013/modern-denial-pinkerPlus a lot more to cite here. You can do a website search for the complete list. In your opinion, is capitalism successfully solving the problem of violence without requiring the need of a socialist revolution?
Apart from a dreadful rendering of the the Red Flag it did confirm it was JEZ WE DID that was the chanthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?t=866&v=rwbhcHwWtbM
I think many endorsed DJP's earlier contribution that we should not go for the player but play the ball.But at times i think there is a good case of shooting the messenger, IDS being one such person deserving of personal attack, in that he launches many such character assassinations himself against claimants. One of the regular columns i very much appreciate is Greasy Pole and its personification of capitalist politics as expressed by Ivan. (Like Tony Blair, IDS was born in Edinburgh, so i think a few Weegies can also be free with their invective)Even the capitalist legal system admits various levels culpability in crime and motives can be a mitigating factor in the sentencing. Our resources are limited so we must be nuanced in their deployment and make sure our criticisms and campaigns are used to best effect.
I have to add my own regret to Stuart's departure from the forum, and can only hope it is another of his decisions where he changes his mind upon and that he continues to share his wisdom and wit with us all (and that is said in by someone who found crossing swords with Stuart both helpful and instructive in developing his own thoughts and ideas even if they were ultimately not in accord with Stuart's views.)
Oh, just to stir it a bit
Quote:We will introduce a ‘friends of Left Unity’ category whereby those who have chosen not to remain members can continue to receive our newsletter and participate in joint discussion and common action on issues that unite us.Would a SPGBer becoming a member of such a category disciplinary face charges?I'm sure on a personal level there are members who are friends with Left Unity members And is there any circumstance that we ourselves would create such a category…for instance, for those who do not cast off their religious convictions and supernatural beliefs.
Perhaps you are right that there may have been some members who attended as individuals (hopefully they will provide observations on the rallies they went to.)My comment was all about a party presence with a leaflet presenting our attitude towards the refugee crisis and a contact point which i see lit. tables being. Corbyn certainly took party and personal advantage at being present, i merely suggest that we too could have, as well. There are not too many public political events where we can make our case heard and we should avail ourselves of them when they arise, particularly if our slant on the problem and the solution is going to be unique, at least from the usual explanations and remedies.
Did we miss another opportunity by not being active and a visible presence on the refugee solidarity rallies throughout the UK?It did seem to be a non-political party affair by looking at the media coverage, not too many visible party banners, but then, there weren't too many trade union banners and there should have been lots of those. A few lit stalls with a themed leaflet signed off the World Socialist Movement to distribute would not have gone amiss, imho. The emphasis that we are for world socialism, that we still stand by the slogan workers of the world unite.And that our party history has been one of consistently being anti-war and anti-nationalist, not one of picking and choosing those conflicts to support or denounce. We could have offered an expression of solidarity and support for fellow workers that is not dependent upon deciding who is deserving and who is undeserving but universal. But we weren't there and nobody heard our message. It was a shame and pity that we were absent.
I think we now have two schools of thought within the Party.One is that th election of Corbyn and an apparent move to the left changes nothing and so we need not change our campaign style.The other view is that Corbyn has tapped into a real shift towards the left by many workers and this began before Corbyn's leadership bid and that we too have to meet the challenge of increased scepticism and cynicism with the political status quo and adjust and adapt our propaganda and publicity.I wonder is there really a dichotomy and that one approach excludes the other. As been said, we hold by our principles that have been built from the collective memory of the Party who encountered in previous reincarnations the Corbyn factor. Our D of P is quite clear "That as all political parties are but the expression of class interests"Who amongst us can say that the Labour Party has acted in the class interests of the workers. It has a shoddy and shabby history.But we will perhaps witness a change if the Labour Party mobilises with the unions to fight the anti-working class legislation contained in the up-coming Tory union rule bills. It will be the worm turning. As been said by others on the thread, surely it would be suicidal to attack allies ( dubious ones they might well be) marching alongside when the enemy is in front of us, clear for all to see.I know it is merely hearsay and very doubtful, but James Connolly is said to have said before the Easter Rising…"In the event of victory, hold on to your rifles, as those with whom we are fighting may stop before our goal is reached. We are out for economic as well as political liberty." We can choose our time and pick our field of battle in the class war against Labour. For the moment our important concern is the victory of our class in the present class struggle, not scoring debating points. We can settle our scores with the Labour Party when they have no place to hide.
A 60% vote certainly gives him a mandate and the thank you speech was littered with sound-bites. But the one that stood out for me was."We are one world." But my hearing was confused at the beginning as he mounted the rostum…i kept hear "SPGB…SPGB.." being chanted…what was it really?
Yes, SP, and we have already stated this http://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/socialist-standard/2000s/2008/no-1252-december-2008/robert-owenpaternalist-utopianhttp://socialist-courier.blogspot.com/2012/06/robert-owen-and-new-lanark.htmlI think though we have to place him into his time…1820s/1830s, were the conditions right to establish socialism? That can be debated and discussed…i think socialistic would be a better description…as then Munzer and Winstanley can join the ranks of our antecedents.
In relation to expulsions from the SPGB for disciplinary offences against party rules or instructions…do you become a non-socialist, and perhaps even anti-socialist…No need to go back to 1920 we have the case of the Socialist Studies group. Are they a socialist party? (their number of members is irrelevant)…being critics of ourselves, does that place them in the anti-socialist camp?
Quote:recent civil wars that ended without fanfare (in Chad, Peru, Iran, India, Sri Lanka, India (sic) and Angola)If that the extent of his scholarships then i think he requires to return to study. India still has several on-going civil wars – Kashmir, Assam and the Naxalite rebellions. Chad is still involved with battling Boko Haram. But i suppose they are not on his list due to mortality/casualty statisticsBut, of course, our socialist case is not that war has to be taking place to make capitalism a war-like society but preparation for war for the threat and fear of war. I can't fathom his flow of thought.
Quote:Wars between nation states, a constant of history for centuries, have continued their fall into obsolescence: no more than three in any year since 1945, none in most years since 1989, and none since the invasion of Iraq in 2003.Is a NATO air-war in Libya not an invasion even if there are no boots on the ground …Various North African wars via the Africa Union described as humanitarian peace-keeping. I think he wishes to redefine conflict and war to suit his purposes…Apparently intervention is not invasion.
Quote:Are the recent crackdowns on dissent in Russia, Venezuela, Turkey and China signs of a worldwide retreat of democracy?…Myanmar certainly has not moved from dictatorship to democracy, nor Mexico, and a number of other countries. Very subjective selection, i believe, more an error of omission of those other states and how do we classify repression of dissent,…I think overall though, we can concur that the world is not slit your throat stab – you in the back culture…we have always maintained that people are co-operative. See this recent blog-posthttp://socialismoryourmoneyback.blogspot.com/2015/09/declaring-peace.html
Strange isn't it that they demand a nomination from the City of London yet it keeps its independence and special privileges outside the control of the GLA and London mayor, having its own police, administration and its own mayor. Perhaps our candidate can highlight that the City of London is the co-ordination centre for all those Tax Havens around the world. http://socialismoryourmoneyback.blogspot.com/2012/07/corporation.html
