Jeremy Corbyn to be elected Labour Leader?
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alanjjohnstone wrote:Oh, just to stir it a bitQuote:We will introduce a ‘friends of Left Unity’ category whereby those who have chosen not to remain members can continue to receive our newsletter and participate in joint discussion and common action on issues that unite us.
Would a SPGBer becoming a member of such a category disciplinary face charges?I'm sure on a personal level there are members who are friends with Left Unity members And is there any circumstance that we ourselves would create such a category…for instance, for those who do not cast off their religious convictions and supernatural beliefs.
Not a bad idea, Alan. Although I would prefer the SPGB jettisoned completely this silly bar on religious socialists – it is totally superfluous and unnecessary given all the very strict criteria you have to fulfil to become , and continue to be, an SPGBer – this idea of starting up something equivalent to a ‘friends of Left Unity’ for the SPGB itself is certianly a step in the right direction. It would be a more inclusive and accommodating approach as well as being a welcome acknowledgement of the plain fact that socialism is not going to be brought about by a movement of committed atheists but will require the involvement millions (billions) of others as well who understand and want socialism (which, after all, is all that basically counts at the end of the day). However, all this is contingent upon a clear recognition that just because you are not currently a member of the SPGB this does not make you a "non socialist", still less an "anti-socialist". Which is why it is very important to get this message across on these various threads to do with Corbyn, Lucas and the like. We have got to adopt a more discriminating, nuanced, and what SP rightly calls "intelligent", approach to this whole matter. Hardline and unremittingly uniform hostility to everything and everyone outside your own small circle is an approach that is destined to keep your circle small
Here's what committed Grantite entryists Socialist Appeal sayhttp://www.socialist.net/political-earthquake-shakes-establishment-as-corbyn-wins-landslide-leadership-victory.htm
Quote:We wholeheartedly support the genuine reforms promised by Jeremy. … We must also learn the lessons of past Labour governments. Every attempt to make capitalism work has ended in disaster and the return of the Tories. … You cannot plan what you don’t control and you don’t control what you don’t own. Every attempt to control the economy has failed.robbo203 wrote:Hardline and unremittingly uniform hostility to everything and everyone outside your own small circle is an approach that is destined to keep your circle smallrobbo203 wrote:this idea of starting up something equivalent to a ‘friends of Left Unity’ for the SPGB itself is certianly a step in the right direction.We have over 1000 members on 'Facebook' sympathetic to our case. Most non-members
ALB wrote:It looks as if it's going to be another episode of Tom and Jerry (another idea for the front cover? )NOOOooooooooooooo
gnome wrote:ALB wrote:It looks as if it's going to be another episode of Tom and Jerry (another idea for the front cover? )Out of the capitalist newspapers and TV. Why don't we just reproduce Sky News in the Socialist Standard
Liking a page or group on facebook doesn't really qualify as support or sympathy. So I'd scale down that figure of a 1000.
I agree that Left Unity's time has been and gone. It was even before the Corbyn campaign took off. The sensible thing would be for Left Unity to dissolve itself and join Corbyn's Labour Party en masse.
Before wallowing in selective sentiment, previous writers might pause to consider what the socialist message must only be.Capitalism is driven by the expansion of capital, which is necessarily indifferent to collateral suffering.That is our case for striving to change capitalism for socialism.The significance of this crisis is that it forces European capital to demonstrate to the world its response to unmistakable human suffering.Before falling for capitalist “humanitarianism”, previous writers might pause to consider how mercenary capitalist “humanitarianism” must necessarily be. How ineffectual to solve the problems the expansion of capital has thrown up and must continually throw up!Previous writers might pause to consider how more ineffectual a gesture of socialist “solidarity” with non-socialists must appear, and how ultimately detrimental to our anti-capitalist case.These judgements may seem harsh, but the situation and its capitalist “humanitarian” remedies are harsher.To presuppose that a gesture of ours will be effectual is tantamount to denying our case. It descends to the level of every sentimental anti-socialist moralist reformer of capitalism.In the past the party has wisely left capitalist “humanitarianism” to the willing occupation of those capitalist supporting organisations—and they are legion—that openly promote the delusion that capitalism can be reformed in working class interests.We do not hold that illusion. It is the antithesis of the very thing we claim to be the only mode of actuating genuine humanitarianism.I see the above proposal as a token stimulated by a desire that we must get in on the action. Quite so, as long as the socialist case is forefront.
imposs1904 wrote:A Tom and Jerry front cover would be a bad idea. Please don't.It was only meant as joke (the was the clue), too tempting given the names of the Leader and Deputy Leader. I just thought I'd be the first to make it (though I got from another member). Don't worry it's not going to happen.
twc wrote:Previous writers might pause to consider how more ineffectual a gesture of socialist “solidarity” with non-socialists must appear, and how ultimately detrimental to our anti-capitalist case.I don't think I have come across a single post arguing solidarity with anyone. A little unfair. For myself, I advocate a virulant agressive attack on capitalism and its supporters and less emphasis attacking the socialist visions of others. We have limited resources.The point is being missed big time
I think many endorsed DJP's earlier contribution that we should not go for the player but play the ball.But at times i think there is a good case of shooting the messenger, IDS being one such person deserving of personal attack, in that he launches many such character assassinations himself against claimants. One of the regular columns i very much appreciate is Greasy Pole and its personification of capitalist politics as expressed by Ivan. (Like Tony Blair, IDS was born in Edinburgh, so i think a few Weegies can also be free with their invective)Even the capitalist legal system admits various levels culpability in crime and motives can be a mitigating factor in the sentencing. Our resources are limited so we must be nuanced in their deployment and make sure our criticisms and campaigns are used to best effect.
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