alanjjohnstone
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In all this latest discussion, what is being over-looked is the crucial point – All wealth is created by labour – The Marxist Labour Theory of Value.In a keystroke or a balance-sheet ledger, no matter how money is defined, does it create wealth?
Online i was asked how many of the Standard articles are fresh ones or have they been re-cycled from our previous pamphlet and archives
I've never claimed to be an expert on every aspect of Marxian economics (or any other Marxist topic) but i do have a rudimentary comprehension of the basics – sufficient to make me class-conscious and that is adequate for any worker striving for socialism. I have never taken the Speakers Test. And i don't possess a PhD or even a Desmond TutuAnd anyway I made a comparative statement.
Quote:i have not the economic understanding that others possess in the PartyIn the context of this thread, i think we need to use our most informed members with the clearest grasp of economics to engage someone of Steve Keen's calibre. I have no wish to embarrass the Party by revealing the gaps in my own knowledge of how banking works.On the broader issue, for complex parts of the socialist and Marxist case, it is the Party's task to explain them as simply as we can for both members and non-members. When a visitor arrives on the forum with genuine curiosity and questions, we indeed begin with the ABCs and make our posts an educational experience.
Quote:Just my thoughts on the need for some serious debate on this issue.My own thoughts exactly, Brian. And rather than some nebulous amorphous exchange i suggest a planned and coordinated internet and branch debate that leads to a dedicated conference that can wrestle with the difficulties and put options to the membership to vote upon…But perhaps i have already proposed something like that.The first baby-step is being taken in this regard with an investigation into a national party organisation of individuals rather than one base upon branches. I look forward to the report and its recommendations.i have grown quite patient over the years and although the issue is indeed very urgent, i recognise the danger to rushing decisions on decision-making. But any solution that does not accept the technological changes in the world, may well be ineffective
And the counter-revolutionhttp://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/kurdistan-iraq-prime-minister-abadi-interview-independence-haider-baghdad-kirkuk-patrick-cockburn-a8028201.html
Robbo, you forget also about the Italian Northern League….they too held a recent referendum, albeit not for independence but for more regional powers.https://www.economist.com/news/europe/21730602-unlike-catalonia-no-one-asking-independence-yet-northern-italy-votes-more-autonomyAnd there are also rumblings in Bavariahttps://sputniknews.com/europe/201710061058006062-german-catalonia-independence-bavaria/Other lesser know regions can be seen herehttps://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2017/oct/27/beyond-catalonia-pro-independence-movements-in-europe-mapWith globalisation, the mobility of capital, the power of corporations with international commerce laws such as ISDS, the buying and selling of passports among the rich, does capitalism still require the protection of a nation-state?
Despite the brevity and his (understandable) explanation that he does not conduct lengthy email exchanges on an individual basis, i think we should persist with my suggestion that we contact him with the view of creating a dialogue via the Socialist Standard.A formal invitation should be offered setting out our idea to him, appealing to his professional integrity that both sides of the debate should be presented and that ours is the Marxist and not the Krugman critique.If i recall accurately an earlier post on Keen on this thread, his answer in his exchanges with Krugman is that there can be a time-lag in the accounting but deposits must match loans eventually – money from thin air, indeed – but only temporarily.But perhaps i misremembered or misinterpreted. I've said enough times i have not the economic understanding that others possess in the Party
As i said on another thread on another topic, the SPGB lacks credibility when it comes to MSM. We have no big names. Certainly no house-hold names or even in professional circlesBut i think your earlier suggestion of friendly contacting Steve Keen direct is a promising one, presenting our case to him and perhaps getting him to reply and agreeing to it to be in the Socialist Standard.Perhaps, an exchange with him would result in us gaining a bit more legitimacy in the eyes of the broader economic world.I think you may be qualified to make a non-confrontational informed approach, ALB, either privately or as an editor of the SS, and try to elicit his cooperation in clarifying his views on the matter.
Quote:I would argue that all human beings have an innate need to want to be part of an in-group. [An academic ethologist would put it less clumsily than that, but it should be more or less clear what I mean].And i think any socialist on this list would say we are, as a species, social beings. We do indeed prefer and prosper as a group and not as atomised isolated individuals although we do possess certain personal needs which we seek to satisfy.I suggest a read of the Right to Be Greedy might be useful regards that aspecthttps://libcom.org/library/right-be-greedy-theses-practical-necessity-demanding-everythingI suggest you make a great leap from tribalism ie the basic being familial relationships to nationalism. It was not an organic growth but a political process over centuries which involved slaughter and land-grabbing to create a "nation".I think on the other thread Robbo recommended Benedict Anderson but i am guessing you are well versed in your "subject" enough to have read him.But on a practical historical level Scotland is a history of clans being opposed to nationalism.Can i refer you to a Socialist Standard article i wrote prior to the Scottish independence referendum to give some sort of perspective of what "belonging" meant in ye olden dayes.http://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/socialist-standard/2010s/2014/no-1318-june-2014/scottish-english-who-caresI think English history also reflects this…even today with the trite saying "North of the Watford Gap" is still used as to divide England. Wasn't the civil War of the Roses between the Lancastrians and the Yorkshiremen a battle of families to dominate? (although i claim to be no expert in that "tribal" war)
Perhaps not in liquidity cash nor in gold has Bezos $90 billion.We all know how stocks and shares go up and down and when you cash them in you get the stock-market valuation….just ask those workers who are now finding that their pension pay-outs are dependent on the day of retirement share index.Before Bezos the one who was always leap-frogging Gates was the Mexican mega-billionaire Carlos Slim. In 2007, 2010, 2011, 2012 and 2014 Forbes Rich List said to have overtaken Gates as the richest man in the world, By 2016 Slim's wealth dropped by a half
"We can argue over the semantics…"
Quote:If the Japanese government has traditionally tended to discourage non-Japanese ethnic migrants from settling in that archipalego, that is not something that is being 'imposed' on the Japanese, it simply allows the status quo to evolve at its own pace and it reflects what the ethnic Japanese want.""Traditionally tended to discourage" – only if you ignore the forced importation of Chinese and Korean labour during WW2. In 1947 the Japanese began deporting them.Marriages to foreigners – 2006 – 6% but dropped to 3% in 2013. (I wonder why)2014 – 2 million foreigners residing in Japan. Of this number, a third were considered long-term A 2015 poll found 34% opposed an expansion of immigration while 51% people support increased immigration.According to the United Nations' 2008 report, communities affected by racism and xenophobia in Japan included the national minorities Ainu indigenous to Hokkaido, and the Ryukyuans indigenous to OkinawaI believe the status quo for humanity has always been migration and acceptance and non-acceptance is very often a political choice made for economic reasons. In the modern context, can you define tribal and non-tribal. I often find "tribalism" associated with football club rivalry and hooliganism.
Being city born and bred with large numbers of tourists, foreign students and in-coming workers from elsewhere in the UK, i happen to think diversity is what appeals to us cosmopolitans.It widens the mind and it increases experiences. It builds tolerance as the statistics bear out.My persoanal anecdotal evidence is from where i worked. Some said it was like the United Nations and when our employer hung the flags of all the nationalities who worked there, it was indeed like the UN.The more people worked together, the more they talked and the more friendships developed. When we had a wildcat walk-out over an issue which only affected full-time permanent staff, the only two scabs was "indigenous". Class did indeed trump nationality, in my view.Perhaps the future will be one of city-states. Hong Kong, Singapore, those Gulf cities, added to the incredible urbanisation taking place around the globe. And people say that London, Amsterdam, Copenhagen, Paris are indeed already different from their actual nation. Trump supporters seem to hate the "liberals" of NYC,SF, LA and Chicago. I suppose Japan would be perhaps your ideal nation. But they DO IMPOSE an idealist social model by purposefully excluding people. Their record for accepting refugees is dismal – 3 in the first 6 months of 2017 and since 1981 the total has been 700. In 2016 Japan accepted less than 1% of asylum seekers. Some may think this good. I beg to differ. It is shameful.When checking the ethnic division of Japan, i was surprised to see the number of Brasilians.
Quote:Japan, which is home to the second largest Brazilian community outside of Brazil. They also constitute the largest number of Portuguese speakers in Asia, even greater than those of formerly Portuguese East Timor, Macao and Goa combined. Likewise, Brazil maintains its status as home to the largest Japanese community outside of Japan.Perhaps someone can explain and save me the bother of checking.
Well, ALB, the mystification of money continues. And we have our work set out for us to challenge such now deeply embedded analyses. I don't believe Zoe Williams is an economist but she does reflect Guardian readershiphttps://www.theguardian.com/global/shortcuts/2017/oct/29/how-the-actual-magic-money-tree-works
Quote:data shows that most MPs do not know how money is created. Responding to a survey commissioned by Positive Money just before the June election, 85% were unaware that new money was created every time a commercial bank extended a loan, while 70% thought that only the government had the power to create new money. ..How is money created? Some is created by the state, but usually in a financial emergency. For instance, the crash gave rise to quantitative easing – money pumped directly into the economy by the government. The vast majority of money (97%) comes into being when a commercial bank extends a loan. Meanwhile, 27% of bank lending goes to other financial corporations; 50% to mortgages (mainly on existing residential property); 8% to high-cost credit (including overdrafts and credit cards); and just 15% to non-financial corporates, that is, the productive economy…All money comes from a magic tree, in the sense that money is spirited from thin air. There is no gold standard. Banks do not work to a money-multiplier model, where they extend loans as a multiple of the deposits they already hold. Money is created on faith alone, whether that is faith in ever-increasing housing prices or any other given investment…Any commercial bank could create too much and generate over-indebtedness in the private economy, which is what has happened.We really should have an educational page that presents our definitive explanation so we can link to in comments and even send off corrections.
Will the new Yorkshire national football team be as disappointing as the Scotland one, i ask myself?The World Socialist Party of Yorkshire will be hostile to all parties that fail to act in the interests of the working class an that class is an international world-wide class. not restricted to the borders of Yorkshire. But the issue may well be a real one. We do witness the increased regionalisation of politics and it is definitely not based upon ethnicity even if in 2016 DNA traced the most Anglo-Saxon heritage to Yorkshiremen and women https://www.theguardian.com/science/2016/jul/28/yorkshire-is-most-anglo-saxon-region-in-the-uk-dna-analysis-suggestsRather it appeals to the "i'm alright jack so stuff you" divisive attitudes fostered by capitalist ideology against the sentiment of solidarity supported by the socialists.
http://www.dw.com/en/pope-francis-speaks-out-against-nationalism-in-europe/a-41155399Is this another sign of the Pope's radicalism or a reminder of the world universalism of his church.
Quote:Pope Francis has warned against 'particular and nationalist agendas' threatening Europe and called for solidarity, teamwork and shared sacrifice. Pope Francis has warned Europeans against creating new divisions and building trenches, the former a reference to growing nationalism across the continent and the latter a reference to the carnage wrought by World War I….he pope also appeared to warn against the dangers posed by anti-immigrant parties. "Extremist and populist groups are finding fertile ground in many countries," he said. "They make protest the heart of their political message, without offering the alternative of a constructive political project."Is the Pope a useful voice against the myth of over-population or a reactionary oppositionist to birth-control and abortion
Quote:The pontiff also lamented Europe's declining birth rate. The continent, he said, was suffering from "a period of dramatic sterility. Not only because Europe has fewer children, and all too many were denied the right to be born, but also because there has been a failure to pass on the material and cultural tools that young people need to face the future."Mixed messages, mezinks
