Catalonia – what now?

February 2024 Forums General discussion Catalonia – what now?

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  • #85844
    robbo203
    Participant

    It all seems to have ended in tears – one more pointless exercise in Catalonian nationalist delusions which has only served to stir up an equally pointless and deluded Spanish nationalism. … 

     

     

    BREAKING NEWS: Catalonia's president flees to Brussels after Belgium offered him asylum as Spain issues him with €6 MILLION bail and announces plan to charge senior officials with sedition and rebellion

     

    Ousted Catalan leader Carles Puigdemont fled to Brussels on Monday as his separatist movement collapsed and Spain's top prosecutor called for him to be charged with rebellion, sedition and embezzlement.

    On Saturday, the sacked Catalan leader issued a televised statement in which he vowed to come to work on Monday unless he was 'forcibly prevented', and called on civil servants to 'peacefully resist' efforts by Madrid to take over the levers of power in Catalonia.

    Former speaker Carme Forcadell was also ordered to hand herself over to police. She was pictured arriving at the parliamentary palace in Barcelona on Monday where she announced the government was dissolving.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5030789/Carles-Puigdemont-posts-image-inside-Catalonia-parliament.html

    #130290
    robbo203
    Participant

    The domino effect of catalan nationalism,  Now Flemish nationalism gets in on the act – possibly https://www.thelocal.es/20171030/deposed-catalan-president-carles-puigdemont-is-apparently-already-in-belgium

    #130291
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Nationalism versus nationalism

    #130292
    alanjjohnstone
    Keymaster

    Robbo, you forget also about the Italian Northern League….they too held a recent referendum, albeit not for independence but for more regional powers.https://www.economist.com/news/europe/21730602-unlike-catalonia-no-one-asking-independence-yet-northern-italy-votes-more-autonomyAnd there are also rumblings in Bavariahttps://sputniknews.com/europe/201710061058006062-german-catalonia-independence-bavaria/Other lesser know regions can be seen herehttps://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2017/oct/27/beyond-catalonia-pro-independence-movements-in-europe-mapWith globalisation, the mobility of capital, the power of corporations with international commerce laws such as ISDS, the buying and selling of passports among the rich, does capitalism still require the protection of a nation-state?

    #130293
    alanjjohnstone
    Keymaster

    And the counter-revolutionhttp://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/kurdistan-iraq-prime-minister-abadi-interview-independence-haider-baghdad-kirkuk-patrick-cockburn-a8028201.html

    #130294
    HollyHead
    Participant
    alanjjohnstone wrote:
    With globalisation, the mobility of capital, the power of corporations with international commerce laws such as ISDS, the buying and selling of passports among the rich, does capitalism still require the protection of a nation-state?

     I'd say the answer to that is "yes"The means of enforcing their policies and safeguarding the interests of the capitalist class still remain in the hands of the nation state. (At least in the "advanced" nation states.)Remember the debacle of the proposed "European Army". Also we can recall the difficulties encountered in putting together any "alliance of the willing" when seemingly enthusiastic votes in favour are followed by a reluctance to cough up the readies.

    #130295
    alanjjohnstone
    Keymaster

    I suppose the answer was actually in my comment

    Quote:
    the buying and selling of passports among the rich

    But i think another aspect could be the stashing of profits overseas. Is the nation-state being paid adequately for the protection?Another European Army in the offing called the G-5 Forcehttps://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/30/new-400m-army-to-fight-human-traffickers-and-terrorists-faces-un-moment-of-truthIt too is suffering from funding trouble.

    #130296

    Good joke in this week's Eye: "Nobody expects the Spanish imposition"… Never mind…

    #130297
    alanjjohnstone
    Keymaster

    Rebellion and seditionhttp://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41865121Another over-reaction by Madrid?

    #130298
    robbo203
    Participant
    alanjjohnstone wrote:
    Rebellion and seditionhttp://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41865121Another over-reaction by Madrid?

     Yes definitely an over-reaction.   If they were clever capitalist politicians they would quietly drop the idea of imposing prison sentences on the "rebels", simply slap a fine on them and  ban them from holding office for 10 years or so.  Humiliating them and turning them into martyrs for the cause of Catalan independence is only going to make matters worse in the long run. However its early days yet and I suspect the hardline approach is something that is being pursued with the support of other european countries. I suspect these other countries want to use Spain as an example of what could happen should breakaway movements take off in these countries themselves.  So they want to nip the growth of these movements in the bud, using Spain as an example. However, when all the fuss has died down the Spanish giverment may well decide on the course of amnesty and pardon for the rebels.  We shall see how things pan out….

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