Bijou Drains
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If you get to the stage of 100% inoculation, then the 70% of the population who are vaccinated and have immunity is usually enough to stop widespread community transmission. However the two vaccines currently being administered have different efficacies, one around the 90-95% and one around 70%. The level of cover will then depend upon the proportion of each given and also to which age groups they are given to (younger people and care staff would be more likely to transmit than older people in care homes because of their social pattern). This all also depends upon whether or not the immunity given by the jab also stops transmission.
The immunity from infection that the vaccine provides is not like a force field to the virus, the virus does enter the body as it usually would, however the immune system kills it off before it can establish itself. It may be that during this process of killing it off the virus is still infectious. Even if this was the case it is likely that the amount of time an infected person who has had the virus is infectious to others would be much reduced.
Taking this further from the original stage three trial of the Oxford vaccine, even of those who tested positive after the vaccine, non progressed to the level of needing hospital treatment and none died. The implication of this is that the vaccine boosts the immune system enough to deal with the infection eventually, although the virus does gain some foothold
Going back to ALBs point about the 50% effectiveness, this comes from the trials and relates to the difference between the vaccinated group and the non vaccinated group. You create two matched cohorts (matched for age, health conditions, etc.) if you had say 10,000 in each group you would measure the infection rate across both groups you would measure the infection rate from the control group who were given a placebo and the vaccinated group. In the case of a 50% effective vaccine, half as many in the second group would have test positive for the virus over a specified time than in the control group. It does not therefore measure the other effects of suppressing the virus to a manageable condition in the vaccinated subjects who were infected, but that is also an important factor.
The anaolgy with apartheid becomes even stronger with the roll out of the Coronavirus Vaccine.
Denying COVID-19 vaccines to Palestinians exposes Israel’s institutionalized discrimination
LB –
I don’t think it was the mob participation that killed them, it was more likely the 35 years of pancakes with maple syrup, deep fried chicken, countless Big Macs, etc. Wot done it.The point I was making is that a lot of the trumpists talk a good game, but in terms of being a real threat against the real agents of the state, they are a bunch of no hopers.
It’s a bit like their “survivalist” compadres, who had prepared for the apocalypse/zombie invasion, but who couldn’t manage a two week lockdown, because without a trip to the mall they were going to have a nervous breakdown.
The fact is that although they stormed the capitol, once they’d done that they didn’t have a bloody clue what to do next.
We used to have a phrase for the posh kids who turned up to play football with brand new expensive boots and kit etc. “All the gear and no idea”. I think for the majority of Trumpists that’s exactly where they are, unfortunately instead of football boots they have automatic assault rifles.
The American Right might outgun the left, but it’s interesting that when it all kicks off, three of the fat fuckers have a heart attack
It has been known for sometime that venus fly traps have what is a very rudimentary counting system. When a fly lands in the trap there are bristles that are sensitive to fly movements, however the trap only closes after the bristles have been touched twice.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/venus-flytraps-know-how-count-180958017/LBN
I always found it a little ironic that a poster with the name Leon Trotsky should complain about a small minority overthrowing the outcome of a democratic electionRod Shaw and Wez
I have also considered for some time the way sport would function in a Socialist Society and for my part I think sport will continue to be a big part of Socialist Society, competitive and non competitive.Although like most things in capitalist society there is a great focus on the elite money making side of sport, for the majority of participants in sport practically everything is done at a voluntary level.
I used to play local leagues football back in the 80s and 90s and all of the officials for the leagues, the administrators, the County FA committees, etc were volunteers. I used to be amazed and to an extent humbled by the referees and linesman (no female match officials in those days) who would trudge to the middle of nowhere to official at a match for a pittance of expenses and receive dog’s abuse from the couple of dozen spectators who watched.
The same applies at higher levels of sport as well. My brother in law is on the committee of a local football team that have developed from being a works team to playing at a semi professional level, however apart from the players and the manager, everything at the club is done on a voluntary basis, from operating the turnstiles, producing the programme, running the club shop, etc.
The same is true of youth sports, with junior teams and sport activities usually run by volunteers and parents. This is true across a range of sporting activities. Local bowls clubs, rugby clubs, squash clubs, etc. etc. thousands and thousands of volunteers across the country.
To me this is a fantastic example to use to illustrate how socialism can work. For example there are 60,000 pigeon fancier in the UK, when I was younger I used to race pigeons myself. The vast, vast majority of running the sport is done on a volunteer basis. Local clubs running their own affairs, usually in a very democratic fashion all of it without having to elect a leader!!! The unpleasant jobs also get done, cleaning out shower rooms, washing kit, marking out pitches, clearing dog shit off the playing area, etc.
In terms of elite sport, I am a big fan of Gaelic Games, and I think that some of the ways that GAA sports are organised could be used as a model for sport under socialism. In GAA you generally are only allowed to play for the club in your parish (this is starting to change). The individual clubs play against each other on a county wide basis. The county champions then play against the other county winners on a provincial basis (Ulster, Munster, Leinster and Connacht) and then the provincial winners play each other to become the All Ireland Senior Club champions (at Football, Hurling, Ladies Football and Camogie). At County level you play for the county your club is in (if selected) the counties play out the provincial championships and then the All Ireland Championships to decide the All Ireland Champions.
Although there are some anomalies in this format (Co Dublin has by far the biggest pool of talent to pick from, essentially you play for where you’re from, whether that be parish or county. This also means that there are times when a group of good players appear in one localit, giving most counties a chance to have their time in the sun. From the point of view of nations and how socialists would feel about being picked to represent a nation, I would hope that the divisions would have the same impact as county divisions have in Ireland, which is rivalry at a sporting level and very little impact otherwise.
I had the same problem so I tried on different browsers and devices, none of them worked, but my iphone instructed me to change the password as it said the site had been compromised?
Hi L Bird
Sorry for late reply, so as you agree with my summary of your view that all socially produced theory should be subject to democratic vote, can I pose you a question.If, in a socialist society, a vote was held re Marx’s view of the social production of theories (which by definition must be a socially produced theory) was held and the vote rejected Marx’s theories, would you subsequently also reject those theories also, knowing that not to do so would be anti democratic and anti socialist?
So just to clarify, L Bird, for those of us who haven’t been following this thread particularly closely, your view is that Marxist theory states that all science is social produced and that it therefore follows that as it is socially produced it, alongside all theoretical approaches, should be subject to democracy, and not to follow the outcome of that democratic decision would not only be anti democratic it would be anti socialist?
Was talking to a trotskyist mate of mine at the weekend who was incandescent at the fact that Trump wouldn’t accept the election result. I asked him if the same thing should apply to elections to constituent assemblies and he produced the usual, oh well that was different, it was a moving landscape, a few mumbles about capitalist elections, smashing the state and then went strangely quiet.
Rodshaw, The cynic in me thinks that perhaps the impact of no crowd at Man United having an impact on the results for them, might have more to do with the more neutral performance of referees, rather than their players losing the backing of the crowd.
I know players often say the crowd can lift them, but perhaps the impact is more mixed, you often hear whispers that certain players are brilliant in training, but find it difficult in front of a crowd. It might make for an interesting season, as presumably the players who are most highly priced are those, who to quote numerous football punters “can produce the goods on the big occasions” there might be a bit of a levelling out of teams.
It’s not just the crowd who add to home advantage though, familiarity with surroundings must also help, subconsciously you must be using less cognitive energy in familiar surroundings, than you would in non-familiar surroundings. I know from my illustrious career in the Newcastle and District Welfare League Division 2, there was still an advantage in being on your own turf, and it wasn’t the one man and his dog watching that provided it!
I would have thought that certain clubs (Sunderland for example 😀 😀 ) would be quite familiar with playing in practically empty home stadiums.
With a synopsis which starts like this……….
“InterReflections, the first of a trilogy, is an experimental, social commentary film. Structurally, the work is mixed-genre, combining three mutual timelines, with aspects of documentary, horror, science fiction satire and more. Inspired by the avant-garde tradition of impressionistic abstraction, challenging convention, the 2 hr and 45 min work is grounded in a distinct sociological perspective surrounding the subject of public health and human well-being.”
………….I get the feeling that I’d rather eat my own scrotum than watch this film.
