- This topic has 81 replies, 10 voices, and was last updated 8 months, 1 week ago by Anonymous.
January 7, 2021 at 11:28 am #212183MovimientoSocialistaParticipant
As Feuerbach said: Man created religion but religion did not create man. Several of our articles and pamphlets have clearly indicated that religion, gods, and it’s so-called holy books had materialist origin to explain man materialists circumstances, and every one of them has been related to a particular economic system. I stick my gun to the Materialist Conception of HistoryJanuary 7, 2021 at 12:26 pm #212187
I stick my gun to the Materialist Conception of History
..and I also. 🙂January 7, 2021 at 12:51 pm #212189
Matt, thanks. So many working class histories fall by the way. Ignored and neglected. We can weave them again.
All aside… even the festive jest… a gold nugget of history is kept alive… Our oral culture deserves the archival attention, irrespective of our lived experiences.
We experience so much loss, and right through history… but the last sad thing is the silent existence of the our stories, our very histories, irrespective of material conditions.
Signing off, and late down South,
Be safe, LBJanuary 7, 2021 at 1:11 pm #212190alanjjohnstoneParticipant
“The socialist, who has a materialist approach to the world in which he lives, has no “beliefs” whatsoever. Either we possess certain knowledge regarding reality, or alternatively we are seeking knowledge, or we lack the knowledge. Beliefs and faith form no part of our quest for scientific data and information.” – The Western Socialist, Winter, 1976
Our SOYMB trying to sum up this debate in 2013 in a long series of posts on religion
Just to add variety, SOYMB blog on the Taborites as an example of a heresy.January 7, 2021 at 2:51 pm #212193AnonymousInactive
As the son of an SPGB member who not only never begrudged us Christmas but did his best to make it as magical as possible, without any of us being religious, I don’t see socialism as a puritan feastless society. People of every culture have marked this time of year as special: the harvest taken in, the closing in and cosiness of winter. I find the professional atheists as unattractive as the evangelical fundamentalists. I think socialism will celebrate Yule, without religious belief and also without roundhead chips on the shoulder.
We certainly won’t attract the masses with roundheadedness and insistence on denial of the magical.January 7, 2021 at 2:56 pm #212194AnonymousInactive
Remember, Movimiento, that the MCH can’t be a hammer to bash others with, but a teaching and learning tool. The base is economic, but the superstructure, in all its diverse manifestations, has much to delight us with and teach us about ourselves.January 7, 2021 at 5:38 pm #212195robbo203Participant
“I find the professional atheists as unattractive as the evangelical fundamentalists”
I’m inclined to agree. And I cant help but notice that some of the most hard-line atheists I’ve come across are also some of the most ardent supporters of capitalism. I don’t think this is entirely coincidental. Just dip a toe in the various “anarcho-capitalist” forums around on the internet and you will soon enough discover this to be the case
Atheism is no guarantee that people wont drift away from – or for that matter, be drawn to – socialismJanuary 7, 2021 at 6:22 pm #212196ALBKeymaster
Actually, Robbo, there was a talk on Discord a month or so which brought out that point. It can be listened to here:January 7, 2021 at 6:43 pm #212197
I don’t think the term of ‘professional atheist’ is appropriate for socialists of our kind either.
I get on just as great with religious people as well as anyone else and they with me.
I am speaking of those who share a commensense of humanity not the proselytising nut jobs religious or atheist.
But some of the patronising religious ones need it right up them.
You do not need to remind my comrade for instance that,
Movimiento, that the MCH can’t be a hammer to bash others with, but a teaching and learning tool.
He knows it as well as me.January 7, 2021 at 7:24 pm #212201MovimientoSocialistaParticipant
The professional atheists are the scientists or university teachers who reject the concept of gods but support capitalism such as the first ideologists of French capitalism, some physicists and astrophysicists, and the leaders of the soviet they were atheists capitalists. Bill Gates is an atheist who loves capitalism
At the socialist party, we analyze the origin of religion based on the materialist conception of history, and we have explained that most religions were created by mankind as the only and best solution at that moment that human being had to explain their society and their universe, but we do not believe that religion had a spiritual origin.
The phrase used by Karl Marx that religion was the opium of the peoples was applicable at that time because religion was deeply rooted in the society in his time, but in our time it is a different case, even more, in Europe religion does not have too much support at present
The critique of religion is the critique of capitalism and vice-versa, it will exist until the original causes which motivated its origin due to continuing existing in our society It is simple, we do not need a degree in philosophy, theology, or history to understand that, and we have two pamphlets which explain that
January 7, 2021 at 11:45 pm #212215
- This reply was modified 8 months, 1 week ago by MovimientoSocialista.
“The base is economic, but the superstructure, in all its diverse manifestations, has much to delight us with and teach us about ourselves.”
In concluding any remark I may make on this thread- I find Thomas More’s post heartening. There is much delight in the superstructure, and it will have much diversity.
I think I have earnestly posted in a past thread that I belong to a community of faith. The metaphor of oil and water: socialism struggles to mix with faith, is one that I might not agree with. But that is okay.
The human mind can hold contradictions (bracket, mix and meld ideas)- though in a thread post it is limited to elaborate in detail.
Appealing to the masses on changing the base to socialism means reaching out to a tingling superstructure in all its values and local wisdom practices.
There is a kind of alchemic process that makes oil and water mix. If I can name it I will let you know. But I think getting to know one another, our common humanity is a good start.
Some of you know that I have posted for a while in earnest, in learning, in all openness, and I have got to know some members more and have shared that common humanity… I might sound odd, saying I can hold the contradiction of material and scientific alongside a belief, that to others is intangible. But that is okay too… That seems to be the theme of my lived experience, somewhat like moving through the raindrops without a shared umbrella.
The SPGB has been an altering experience for me- and have met comrades… reconciling differences and embracing multi stances with a common aim continues. I think more dialogue is ahead and in the spirit of Thomas More’s post above… long may it continue.
January 8, 2021 at 2:01 pm #212240AnonymousInactive
- This reply was modified 8 months, 1 week ago by L.B. Neill.
Many thanks LB for your kind words.January 8, 2021 at 8:31 pm #212251
You are welcome Thomas, stay safe, and keep the words flowing.January 9, 2021 at 8:48 am #212265AnonymousInactive
You too L.B.
Do you want to open a new discussion here about Christianity?January 9, 2021 at 8:56 am #212268
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.