Was Jesus a Collaborator?

September 2021 Forums General discussion Was Jesus a Collaborator?

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 82 total)
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  • #211491
    Young Master Smeet
    Participant
    #211492
    ALB
    Keymaster

    A change, I suppose, from depicting this legendary figure as a revolutionary. My speculation would be that, if he had existed,  he would have been more of a Jehovah Witness preaching that the end of the world was nigh. The most absurd speculation about him of course is that he was the son of a god.

    #211493
    Ozymandias
    Participant

    A fascinating read.

    #211496
    Young Master Smeet
    Participant

    ALB,

     

    Have I pointed you at this book:

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Behind-Myths-Foundations-Judaism-Christianity-ebook/dp/B00B0GS45G/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=pickard+behind+the+myths&qid=1608847419&sr=8-2

    Behind the Myths – the Foundations of Judaism, Christianity and Islam

    (I think he over eggs the pudding on none of the Abraham religions having any historical basis, and he seems to be factually wrong over the Christian tradition, but it is a fun read nonetheless and has a worthwhile bibliography that’s worth looking at).
    #211558

    I do not think Christianity came from Judaism. The movement that was born in Rome came from mythology taken from the Egyptian. There is a book titled: Jesus 3000 years before Christ which explained the connection between the primitive Christians and the Egyptian religion. Catholicism is totally different from primitive Christians, it was the religion of Feudalism. Engels described the primitive Christians as a working-class movement similar to the working-class movement of our times. Karl Kautsky also wrote about the primitive Christians. There were more than  200 Christs within other civilization including the Greek, that is the reason why the Christians in Rome were known as the sect. If Christianity came from the Jew world it was not from Judaism,  it came from the Essenes and they believed in reincarnation, it was Paul who was a pharisee who introduced the concept of resurrection, and he was a Roman/Syrian

    #211559
    alanjjohnstone
    Participant

    As regards to the origin of Christianity, the Jewish Jesus followers disappeared rather quickly. What then occurred was that the Paulian cult began converting the non- Jews of the Roman Empire and did so by adopting and incorporating the beliefs of their rival religions over the next centuries, making Christianity fit the ideas and social reality already prevalent. From such pix and mix theology, there arose a great number of contending “heresies”, waning and waxing in their influence. The evolution of Christianity has never stopped.

    From my reading, the original Jewish Jesus followers, arose from the John the Baptist cult, which may have been part of the practices of the Essenes which itself was a mere reflection of the ALB’s doomster “Jehovah Witness” – eschatology.

    Jesus myth or historic figure? I tend to side with the latter explanations, a preacher among very many,  as MS suggests, from which many legends were attached to. Again, a pix  and mix to suit your fancy. Any accurate depiction of the teachings of this preacher have long been lost. Make him into whatever one wishes, radical or reactionary, the evidence does not exist to refute an interpretation.

    #212088
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I did come across a story many years ago of twelve bandits led by one Joshua who attacked, robbed and murdered travellers.

    #212090
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I think it is obvious that the Jewish Christians emerged as part and parcel of the Zealot movement in Palestine, and this would be the reason for conflict with Rome, which had no problem with law-abiding religions at all. I fail to see how a man preaching self-renunciation and humility would have bothered the Roman authorities. Such would not merit punishment, let alone crucifixion. But, if part of the violent Zealot movement, the Jewish Christians could, following the collapse of that movement, have dwindled and been again absorbed into Judaism, and, like the pacifist cults of later Christian Europe, turned to a gospel of self-effacement etc.
    Unlike the Gentile Christians, we know that the Jewish Christians were not for the abolition of Hebraic law, and observed the rites. Even among the early Christians of Rome, the crucifixion does not appear in their art. Their early Gentile Christ is a jolly beardless boy.

    #212094

    The concept of the twelve apostles was taken from the zodiac and Jesus is the sun, they never existed along with their master. The Christian movement only existed in Rome and the concept was taken from Egyptian mythology and it was an anti-slavery movement. The places that christ walked in Palestine never existed in that time and Nazareth was a cemetery. If the Christians existed in Palestine they came from Essenes. Every ancient religion has been created by mankind under a particular economic system

    #212095
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    What do you mean by saying the places didn’t exist?
    And whence your notion that Christianity didn’t start in Palestine?
    I’m quite prepared to say many later influences were non-Judaic.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galilee_campaign_(67)

    #212096
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    #212097
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    #212098
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    #212099
    alanjjohnstone
    Participant

    We should wonder why John the Baptist never actually became a disciple of Jesus.

    #212100
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    If you read Mark, he never meets Jesus and is awaiting execution, isn’t he, when he hears of him?
    He does foresee Christ and that is the message he preaches.

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