Venezuela

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This topic contains 191 replies, has 13 voices, and was last updated by  marcos 1 month, 1 week ago.

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  • #182684

    ALB
    Participant

    We’ve got to discuss this because what’s happened there has the makings of a myth. Open supporters of capitalism are going to drag it out as an example of he failure of socialism and supporters of state-capitalism are going to drag it out as proof that you can’t establish socialism through the ballot box. So, for the record, Chavez was not a “21st century socialist” but a Latin American nationalist-populist (an for an entirely artificial and accidental “nation”) in the tradition of Peron. True, the failure of Chavism has been spectacular. Which only goes to show that there is no national escape from world capitalism.

    #182686

    alanjjohnstone
    Participant

    I stand to be corrected but has the US ever actually recognized an opposition as the official government as they have now done.

    The Left are indeed going to say as they did about Allende and Chile that any elected government will be overthrown by a coup or whatever, engineered by the USA. No doubt the similarities with Ukraine will be raised.

    But as you imply there are two myths.

    One that is state-capitalism which the Right call socialism is guaranteed to fail and we sort of accept that position and the subsequent breakdown began under Chavez when oil prices no longer could support the government spending.

    So they went after the tax income from the wealthy and it resulted in a powerful anti-Bolivarian opposition.

    But is it really a myth that the American policy was always to undermine Venezuela’s government and encourage regime-change? Things just happened to go their way and they easily took advantage of the instability that resulted from the economic mis-management and the heavy-handed state repression of protests. I think the democracy of the ballot box with Chavez can be accepted, less so with Maduro but how many nations have exhibited a similar lack of democracy where there is little protest from the Americans.

    #182687

    alanjjohnstone
    Participant

    I’m sure, ALB, you wish this topic to remain focused on disproving Venezuela’s claims to be a progressive socialistic state but already the situation has grown into a diplomatic dispute. For many of Maduro’s foreign support it is economic interests determining policy.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/24/juan-guaido-venezuelas-opposition-leader-declares-himself-interim-president

    #182689

    Anonymous

    The main problem at the present time is not if Venezuela is not a socialist country run by a state capitalism economy. The situation being confronted now is that workers can confront each other and thousands of peoples can die due to a situation created by the US government and the possible military intervention of the USA directly, or using some military forces from others Latin American countries such as Colombia, Chile, Argentina or Brasil, or any other country from the Lima Group

    We are seeing another Siria, Iraq,  or Libia in the making where a country can be completely destroyed again, and millions of peoples can suffer the consequences due to the  fight between capitalists  in order to take the natural resources, besides petroleum, Venezuela has large mining deposits of Lithium and Coltrane used by the communication and computer industry.

    The army of Venezuela is heavily armed, and well trained at the present time with many modern weapons purchased from Russia and most of them are backing Nicolas Maduro and the so-called Bolivarian revolution initiated by Hugo Chavez, and they are willing to repress any opposition, and many ex-guerrillas fighters are willing to support the Venezuelan government

    This situation can bring a heavy instability in the region, and the Yankees are expert in that type of situation, wherever they go, they create chaos, genocides, tortures, and destructions

    The USA doesn’t want to remove its ambassadors and diplomatic personnel from Venezuela, action which might force the Venezuela government to remove them by the force and it is the excuse that the USA might need in order to justify its military intervention, and they have a military fleet in the Caribbean patrolling its backyard.

    This situation is not new, it also took place in 1960 when the USA created a provisional government in Miami backed by right-wing Cubans, and it was done before the invasion of Bahia de Cochinos where the CIA backed invasion was defeated, and in part, it produced the assassination of John F Kennedy. This is a very dangerous situation

    #182691

    Anonymous

    The so-called socialists of the USA congress, marching behind the Democratic Party ( and the DSA )  haven’t said anything about the situation in Venezuela, they are just a bunch of anti-Trumpists. Real  Socialists in the US are like chicken teeth and fish legs. It is pathetic that personality like Andrew Killman and his organization ( Marxist-Humanists Initiative )  have also fallen in the trap of the Anti-Trumpism, even more, a whole book was published by them indicating that the main problem of the USA is Donald Trump instead of capitalism

    #182692

    maxhess
    Participant

    Just had a request by an LBC producer hoping to discuss the Venezuela situation with someone from the SPGB around 9pm tonight. Anyone up for it?

    • This reply was modified 9 months ago by  maxhess.
    • This reply was modified 9 months ago by  maxhess.
    #182695

    alanjjohnstone
    Participant

    Considering how much we have complained that we are excluded from the media, I certainly hope we do have a volunteer to contribute to LBC, Max.

    #182696

    alanjjohnstone
    Participant

    The UK however, broke European ranks on Thursday and sided with the US.
    “This regime has done untold damage to the people of Venezuela, 10% of the population have left Venezuela such is the misery they are suffering,” the foreign secretary, Jeremy Hunt, said in a statement issued in Washington before a meeting with the US secretary of state, Mike Pompeo, and Vice-President Mike Pence.
    “So the United Kingdom believes Juan Guaidó is the right person to take Venezuela forward. We are supporting the US, Canada, Brazil and Argentina to make that happen.”
    The statement stopped just short of echoing US language on recognising Guaidó, however. “It is UK policy to recognise states, not governments,” a British official said.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/24/venezuela-maduro-guaido-defense-minister-civil-war

    #182697

    Anonymous

    Well, jump in the wagon and give your  socialist statement.  The Leninists are already raising the anti-imperialist flag and they are saying that whoever doesn’t take side with nicolas maduro is a pro-imperialist. We don’t take  side with none of the capitalist blocks and governments

    #182699

    alanjjohnstone
    Participant

    It occurred to me that Trump’s earlier statement that the USA is no longer going to be the “policeman of the world” is fully contradicted by his policy towards Venezuela.

    As the media will more likely than not ignore this open letter, I think we should be aware of Pilger’s, Chomsky’s and a host of other progressives opinion.

    https://www.commondreams.org/views/2019/01/24/open-letter-united-states-stop-interfering-venezuelas-internal-politics

    #182701

    ALB
    Participant

    It’s also a modern application of the Monroe Doctrine, i.e. the Americas are our backyard where we can do what we like, so European powers keep out.

    #182714

    kronstadtjournal
    Participant

    What’s been overlooked by many is Ecuador’s support of Guaiso.The Ecuadorian Governments response is somewhat wide open to interpretation,then again Ecuador is not a socialist country! I wish the idiots that put the Trump invasion article together could spell…..this is what happens when you share domains…..how many ALB clones are there anyway?

    #182720

    kronstadtjournal
    Participant

    Disclaimer due to hackers changing spelling and idiots opening up Kronstadtjournal without authority this journal is now closed.

    #182722

    Anonymous

    Ecuador has never been a socialist country, even more, the expression socialist country is totally incorrect. The government of Lenin Moreno has moved to the right since the very beginning that he became a president. Ecuador is part of the Lima Group

    #182723

    Anonymous

    It occurred to me that Trump’s earlier statement that the USA is no longer going to be the “policeman of the world” is fully contradicted by his policy towards Venezuela.

     

     

    You can not remove the teeth to a tiger, it must kill in order to survive. Only fools can believe in the promises of the US presidents

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