The Pope

April 2024 Forums General discussion The Pope

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  • #107008
    Rusty Pigfumbler
    Participant

    You take it for granted that all socialists are, or should be, in favour of abortion.

    #107009
    Ike Pettigrew
    Participant
    alanjjohnstone wrote:
    Dare i be Daniel and suggest that the current Pope appears to have broken the mould.First he has been a very vocal critic of inequality and certain aspects of capitalism, he has reformed the secrecy of the Vatican bank, admitted and apologised for sex abuse by his clergy, he tried to change attitudes towards homosexuality, he announced that atheists and non-catholics can go to Heaven, he is credited with being the peace-maker between Cuba and the US and now he has denounced the power crazy cardinals, http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30577368Contraception and abortions and divorce, gay marriage, womens ordination, he still remains committed to existing papal policy. How long before on these the catholic church fall into line with other churches?

    Not that I'm interested in what religious people think, but all this proves is that he is a pretentious fraud with no principles.  Your approval of it doesn't negate what it is.  A Catholic who thinks atheists can go to Heaven is, by definition, not a Christian and therefore not a Catholic.

    #107010
    alanjjohnstone
    Keymaster

    I'm more influenced by James Connolly's take on the Catholic Church.

    Quote:
    To use a homely adage the Church “does not put all her eggs in one basket,” and the man who imagines that in the supreme hour of the proletarian struggle for victory the Church will definitely line up with the forces of capitalism, and pledge her very existence as a Church upon the hazardous chance of the capitalists winning, simply does not understand the first thing about the policy of the Church in the social or political revolutions of the past. Just as in Ireland the Church denounced every Irish revolutionary movement in its day of activity, as in 1798, 1848 and 1867, and yet allowed its priests to deliver speeches in eulogy of the active spirits of those movements a generation afterwards, so in the future the Church, which has its hand close upon the pulse of human society, when it realises that the cause of capitalism is a lost cause it will find excuse enough to allow freedom of speech and expression to those lowly priests whose socialist declarations it will then use to cover and hide the absolute anti-socialism of the Roman Propaganda. When that day comes the Papal Encyclical against socialism will be conveniently forgotten by the Papal historians, and the socialist utterances, of the von Kettelers, the McGlynns, and McGradys will be heralded forth and the communistic utterances of the early fathers as proofs of Catholic sympathy with progressive ideas. Thus it has been in the past. Thus it will be, at least attempted, in the future.

    Just as C of E bishops can reject the Bible, religionists will tailor their beliefs to fit with realities of the modern world…even if the progress is in fits and starts

    #107011
    alanjjohnstone
    Keymaster

    "A punishment that is not open to hope is not Christian and not human," said Francis during his sermon to the prisoners. "That is why the death penalty is neither human nor Christian."http://www.dw.com/en/pope-francis-death-penalty-is-neither-human-nor-christian/a-43191232

    #107012
    alanjjohnstone
    Keymaster

    Hell does not exist. In the afterlife, the souls of unrepentant sinners are not punished – they simply disappear, the head of the Catholic church is alleged to have said. Pope Francis is quoted as saying in an interview with the Italian newspaper La Repubblica: “Hell doesn’t exist, the disappearance of the souls of sinners exists. They are not punished, those who repent obtain the forgiveness of God and go among the ranks of the souls who contemplate him. But those who do not repent, and therefore cannot be forgiven, disappear.”The Vatican has disputed the version of events offered by Mr Scalfari and should not be read as an accurate record of the Pope’s words, but the author’s own “reconstruction”, according to the Holy See.https://inews.co.uk/news/world/pope-francis-allegedly-told-a-journalist-hell-does-not-exist/ 

    #107013
    alanjjohnstone
    Keymaster
    Quote:
    Truqui also spoke at length about Satan, who he described as a pragmatic foe. “The devil tempts the holy man in his holiness and the sinner in his sin,” he says.While he is at pains to point out that he does not believe Pope Francis is possessed or vexed by the devil, he says that the devil would know that Francis would not be tempted by lust for a woman. Instead, he would prey on Francis’s sympathy for the poor, and tempt him to ignore the affluent.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/11/exorcist-priest-catholic-church-vexation

    #107014
    alanjjohnstone
    Keymaster

    The Gospel requires Christians to “denounce personal and social sins committed against God and neighbour in the name of the god money and of power for its own sake,” Pope Francis has written. He said, “the economy and markets have had a role in the excessive exploitation of common resources, increasing inequality and the deterioration of the planet.” “I have been able to see these contrasts more clearly than was possible in Argentina,” he said. The world has enough wealth to feed, house and offer medical care to all its inhabitants, but resources are concentrated in the hands of a few people and millions of others struggle to survive.“What I say and write about the power of the economy and finance is meant to be an appeal so that the poor would be treated better and inequalities would decrease,” Pope Francis said.A particular concern, he said, are the billions of dollars private individuals and companies make from manufacturing weapons, “funds that prosper from innocent blood.” People must become more aware of how the economy works and how much wealth is produced by exploiting people or the environment and by speculation or investing in money rather than in companies that employ people and produce useful products and services, the Pope wrote.http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2018/04/15/christians-must-denounce-sins-committed-in-the-name-of-money-and-power-says-pope/

    #107015
    Bijou Drains
    Participant
    alanjjohnstone wrote:
    The Gospel requires Christians to “denounce personal and social sins committed against God and neighbour in the name of the god money and of power for its own sake,” Pope Francis has written. He said, “the economy and markets have had a role in the excessive exploitation of common resources, increasing inequality and the deterioration of the planet.” “I have been able to see these contrasts more clearly than was possible in Argentina,” he said. The world has enough wealth to feed, house and offer medical care to all its inhabitants, but resources are concentrated in the hands of a few people and millions of others struggle to survive.“What I say and write about the power of the economy and finance is meant to be an appeal so that the poor would be treated better and inequalities would decrease,” Pope Francis said.A particular concern, he said, are the billions of dollars private individuals and companies make from manufacturing weapons, “funds that prosper from innocent blood.” People must become more aware of how the economy works and how much wealth is produced by exploiting people or the environment and by speculation or investing in money rather than in companies that employ people and produce useful products and services, the Pope wrote.http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2018/04/15/christians-must-denounce-sins-committed-in-the-name-of-money-and-power-says-pope/

    Do you think we should send him a free 1 year subscription to the Standard

    #107016
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    alanjjohnstone wrote:
    The Gospel requires Christians to “denounce personal and social sins committed against God and neighbour in the name of the god money and of power for its own sake,” Pope Francis has written. He said, “the economy and markets have had a role in the excessive exploitation of common resources, increasing inequality and the deterioration of the planet.” “I have been able to see these contrasts more clearly than was possible in Argentina,” he said. The world has enough wealth to feed, house and offer medical care to all its inhabitants, but resources are concentrated in the hands of a few people and millions of others struggle to survive.“What I say and write about the power of the economy and finance is meant to be an appeal so that the poor would be treated better and inequalities would decrease,” Pope Francis said.A particular concern, he said, are the billions of dollars private individuals and companies make from manufacturing weapons, “funds that prosper from innocent blood.” People must become more aware of how the economy works and how much wealth is produced by exploiting people or the environment and by speculation or investing in money rather than in companies that employ people and produce useful products and services, the Pope wrote.http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2018/04/15/christians-must-denounce-sins-committed-in-the-name-of-money-and-power-says-pope/

    This Pope is moving toward the Liberation theology, those conceptions that he has expressed were originally said by Camilo Torres Restrepo and Romero, Cabezas and Miguel, who were Lasalle Brothers. 

    #107017
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    Bijou Drains wrote:
    alanjjohnstone wrote:
    The Gospel requires Christians to “denounce personal and social sins committed against God and neighbour in the name of the god money and of power for its own sake,” Pope Francis has written. He said, “the economy and markets have had a role in the excessive exploitation of common resources, increasing inequality and the deterioration of the planet.” “I have been able to see these contrasts more clearly than was possible in Argentina,” he said. The world has enough wealth to feed, house and offer medical care to all its inhabitants, but resources are concentrated in the hands of a few people and millions of others struggle to survive.“What I say and write about the power of the economy and finance is meant to be an appeal so that the poor would be treated better and inequalities would decrease,” Pope Francis said.A particular concern, he said, are the billions of dollars private individuals and companies make from manufacturing weapons, “funds that prosper from innocent blood.” People must become more aware of how the economy works and how much wealth is produced by exploiting people or the environment and by speculation or investing in money rather than in companies that employ people and produce useful products and services, the Pope wrote.http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2018/04/15/christians-must-denounce-sins-committed-in-the-name-of-money-and-power-says-pope/

    Do you think we should send him a free 1-year subscription to the Standard

    Jesuits are intellectuals. Many of them are Psychiatrists, Medical doctors, Engineers, Economists, Sociologist, Psychologists, and Anthropologists.At the present time, the Catholic church and the Episcopal church are more ideological advanced than others churches. At least they are not supporting xenophobics and the  rejection of the emigrants

    #107018
    alanjjohnstone
    Keymaster

    Pope promotes humane capitalism againThe Vatican called for more regulation of markets and financial systems.Two Holy See departments drafted a document saying economic crises showed markets were not able to govern themselves and needed a strong injection of morality and ethics.It said profit for the sake of profit and not for the greater good was "illegitimate" and condemned a "reckless and amoral culture of waste" that has created oligarchies in some countries while leaving great masses of impoverished people "without any means of escape". The document attacked the "economic cannibalism" of some financial practices.The 15-page document uses technical terms such as credit stocks, subprime mortgages, high-frequency trading, credit fault swaps, derivatives, shadow banking systems, capital outflow and interbank loans to illustrate what is says is vulnerability to abuse and illegality. It also speaks of executive salaries.Saying that the material well- being of a greater part of humanity depended on markets, they need to have a strong ethical foundation in order to help all, including people who live in conditions of extreme poverty. The document, called "Considerations for an Ethical Discernment Regarding Some Aspects of the Present Economic-Financial System," was jointly prepared by the Vatican's doctrinal office and its department on human development."The recent financial crisis might have provided the occasion to develop a new economy, more attentive to ethical principles, and a new regulation of financial activities that would neutralize predatory and speculative tendencies and acknowledge the value of the actual economy," it said.https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/17/vatican-says-amoral-financial-system-needs-infusion-of-ethics-more-regulation.html

    #107019
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    alanjjohnstone wrote:
    Pope promotes humane capitalism againThe Vatican called for more regulation of markets and financial systems.Two Holy See departments drafted a document saying economic crises showed markets were not able to govern themselves and needed a strong injection of morality and ethics.It said profit for the sake of profit and not for the greater good was "illegitimate" and condemned a "reckless and amoral culture of waste" that has created oligarchies in some countries while leaving great masses of impoverished people "without any means of escape". The document attacked the "economic cannibalism" of some financial practices.The 15-page document uses technical terms such as credit stocks, subprime mortgages, high-frequency trading, credit fault swaps, derivatives, shadow banking systems, capital outflow and interbank loans to illustrate what is says is vulnerability to abuse and illegality. It also speaks of executive salaries.Saying that the material well- being of a greater part of humanity depended on markets, they need to have a strong ethical foundation in order to help all, including people who live in conditions of extreme poverty. The document, called "Considerations for an Ethical Discernment Regarding Some Aspects of the Present Economic-Financial System," was jointly prepared by the Vatican's doctrinal office and its department on human development."The recent financial crisis might have provided the occasion to develop a new economy, more attentive to ethical principles, and a new regulation of financial activities that would neutralize predatory and speculative tendencies and acknowledge the value of the actual economy," it said.https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/17/vatican-says-amoral-financial-system-needs-infusion-of-ethics-more-regulation.html 

     Is that the so called communist pope ?   That accusation is a clear indication that most people do not know what communism really is , and do not know the difference between capitalism and socialism, well if they said that barrack Obama was a communist anything else is possible, even more  Vladimir Lenin’s can not be called a communist . He sounds more like an apologist of state capitalism ( mistakenly called liberalism) or social Democrats measures ( like Bernie Sanders a new. New dealer like  Roosevelt’  ).  He is not  proposing anything now, they have been implemented and the capitalists have removed  them. It is capitalism within capitalism like Richard Wolf, therefore he is not proposing to replace capitalism for a new classless society without economic exploitation, if he does propose that they would give him the Cicuta PS:  In Chile all bishops have resigned due to an epidemic of sexual scandals like in Argentina it looks like the pope is under a lot of pressures  since he has  that he is willing to resign like his predecessor

    #107020
    alanjjohnstone
    Keymaster

    Marx on MarxCardinal Marx is one of the council of nine cardinals chosen by Pope Francis to advise him. Pope John Paul II used to call him “nostro marxista” – “our Marxist.”Cardinal Marx, the archbishop of Munich-Freising and president of the German bishops' conference, told the Frankfurter Allgemeine Sonntagszeitung that the Communist Manifesto “quite impressed” him.Cardinal Marx admitted to finding the writings of Karl Marx “fascinating,” adding that the Communist Manifesto has “an energy” and “a great language.” “One only has to read Karl Marx without prejudice, then his power will surprise,” the prelate explained. “There is an inspiration, a revolutionary impetus,” he stated.The Carinal also said that Karl Marx “can be very helpful” in light of the current conflicts, revolutions and wars which very well might have their roots in economic injustice. “Human rights without material participation remain incomplete,” the cardinal said. Cardinal Marx – who himself was once a professor of social ethics – also called Karl Marx “the first serious sociologist.”Marx also said about Karl Marx: “Without him, there would not be any Catholic social doctrine.” Moreover, he made it clear that Karl Marx is not responsible for the crimes of Stalinism, even though the cardinal admitted that “there is to be found [in Marx's writings] here or there a totalitarian thought,” such as the collectivism which disrespects the individual person. However, added the cardinal, one may not put Karl Marx into a “direct connection” with the later political Marxism-Leninism, nor even the Soviet prison system and work camps. In 2007, Cardinal Marx quoted approvingly a statement of a professor for Catholic social doctrine which says: “We all stand on the shoulders of Karl Marx.” The prelate then added that “Marx was not a mere ideologue,” claiming that Marx “did not at all propagate an anarchical overthrow.” Karl Marx, rather, wanted a “comprehensive social participation,” which “we now also call for, also on the part of the churches.”https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/german-cardinal-marx-praises-father-of-communism-karl-marx

    #107021
    ALB
    Keymaster

    Anybody here remember Cardinal Sin?

    #107022
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    alanjjohnstone wrote:
    Marx on MarxCardinal Marx is one of the councils of nine cardinals chosen by Pope Francis to advise him. Pope John Paul II used to call him “nostro marxista” – “our Marxist.”Cardinal Marx, the archbishop of Munich-Freising and president of the German bishops' conference, told the Frankfurter Allgemeine Sonntagszeitung that the Communist Manifesto “quite impressed” him.Cardinal Marx admitted to finding the writings of Karl Marx “fascinating,” adding that the Communist Manifesto has “an energy” and “a great language.” “One only has to read Karl Marx without prejudice, then his power will surprise,” the prelate explained. “There is an inspiration, a revolutionary impetus,” he stated.The Carinal also said that Karl Marx “can be very helpful” in light of the current conflicts, revolutions and wars which very well might have their roots in economic injustice. “Human rights without material participation remain incomplete,” the cardinal said. Cardinal Marx – who himself was once a professor of social ethics – also called Karl Marx “the first serious sociologist.”Marx also said about Karl Marx: “Without him, there would not be any Catholic social doctrine.” Moreover, he made it clear that Karl Marx is not responsible for the crimes of Stalinism, even though the cardinal admitted that “there is to be found [in Marx's writings] here or there a totalitarian thought,” such as the collectivism which disrespects the individual person. However, added the cardinal, one may not put Karl Marx into a “direct connection” with the later political Marxism-Leninism, nor even the Soviet prison system and work camps. In 2007, Cardinal Marx quoted approvingly a statement of a professor for Catholic social doctrine which says: “We all stand on the shoulders of Karl Marx.” The prelate then added that “Marx was not a mere ideologue,” claiming that Marx “did not at all propagate an anarchical overthrow.” Karl Marx, rather, wanted a “comprehensive social participation,” which “we now also call for, also on the part of the churches.”https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/german-cardinal-marx-praises-father-of-communism-karl-marx

    Father Camilo Torres Restrepo which was one of the founders of the Liberation Theology had a similar point of view, but he resigned from his priesthood and then he became a guerrillas fighter and an enemy of the Catholic church and the state.The Catholic Church was an accomplice in  the assassination of Bishop Romero, the same center which is declaring him a saint based on the so-called miracles that  he made  but they do not mention about his political, and sociological point of view which motivated his assassination

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