Russell Brand
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Then of course exploitation of the working class stops under labour and Labour Gov have never been known to cut and suppress wages at the expense of profit.
Well, what else could try do? According to Marxian theory, they've no choice but to under capitalism. And since, at this election, capitalism is a given, vote Labour.
stuartw2112 wrote:Would you prefer a poke in the eye in a country with a functioning NHS, or without?The Labour Party, of course, has never attempted to suppress NHS workers wages. Never had a wage freeze to rescue the profits of the 1%
stuartw2112 wrote:Would you prefer a poke in the eye in a country with a functioning NHS, or without?Would you hire Rolf Harris or Jimmy Savill as a babysitter?
stuartw2112 wrote:Oh, and one more thing before I go for the night: VOTE LABOUR!!What, and have fellow workers' blood on my hands? Like Blair?Typical reformist. Hit and run when the heat is on.
That "prancing tit", which he never stopped being, btw, (and go back to the earliest Paxman thread i never said i ever did enjoy his entertainment) has done over 300 Trews videoes, he wrote a book and he is fronting a documentary film all based on the premise of …ummm..revolution…He defected… DEFECTED…over to Labour without any discussion or debate or discourse with his audience and supporters…He sure didn't give an opportunity to listen, did he? You say it is a personal epiphany he had …and without declaring your own vote , you make it clear who you will be casting your ballot for…… And the choice is based on what?…Promises of what they will do in the future, the promises of proven liars …Yup …in a year you will be saying…, Is it Hillary Clinton or Jeb Bush you want?…Blair the lesser evil…Obama the lesser evil…Hollande…etc etcYou simply wash your hands by declaring that the Labour Party still remains the party of labour. That, of course, is very contestable.Is it now all about power, being in office, and no longer about principles?But can we say it is all about advancing towards a new society …of promoting socialism …of advocating a new system…they are mere abstract phrases now for Labour…Unless you do think the gradualism of reformism and choosing the lesser evil has brought the prospects of socialism closer?Before you say it…nope, neither has the strategy of the SPGB…but as i said on another thread…"first do no harm" and apply the precautionary principle…even if it is by inaction. If it is better to do nothing in some cases, then you are doing good by doing nothing. Can you say that about the consequences , purposeful or inadvertent , of the interventions of the Labourite or the Leninist. .I will repeat, the SPGB is part of the World Socialist Movement…i myself live on the other side of the world…What is good for the British worker (and i simply take your word that Miliband will be for that) may well not be good for the others workers of the world….that is as you say an acceptable compromise, a nationalist compromise.I beg to differ. It is not a compromise a socialist can make. But i will say this Party heresy , …we need to present our attitude to reforms (not reformism) and our relationship with those campaigning for them in a different fashion…how and to what, i still not sure in what way to make it practical politics but it has to stop short of class collaboration. I'll end with my favourite election candidate
Quote:“I never had much faith in leaders. I am willing to be charged with almost anything, rather than to be charged with being a leader. I am suspicious of leaders, and especially of the intellectual variety. Give me the rank and file every day in the week. If you go to the city of Washington, and you examine the pages of the Congressional Directory, you will find that almost all of those corporation lawyers and cowardly politicians, members of Congress, and mis-representatives of the masses — you will find that almost all of them claim, in glowing terms, that they have risen from the ranks to places of eminence and distinction. I am very glad I cannot make that claim for myself. I would be ashamed to admit that I had risen from the ranks. When I rise it will be with the ranks, and not from the ranks.” DebsIn the 70's, under Sunny Jim Callaghan, Labour set up the notorious Police Special Patrol Group. They used troops to break both the Refuse Workers, and Firemens strikes. Labour were the first political Party to impose legally enforceable Wage Restraint legislation upon Workers.Barbara Castle, that doyen of non Socialist misunderstanding, wrote a paper, entitled "In Place of Strife"! Ever read it Stuart? Could have been a blueprint for Thatchers crackdown on workers rights from 1979 onwards.From 1945 onwards, good ole boy Manny Shinwell, who was an MP for Easington, as Minister for Labour, prosecuted and imprisoned striking dockers and others, using the Emergency Powers Act, year on year until Labour were eventually kicked out by the Tories, led by another "friend of the workers" Winston (Fat Bastard, Alcoholic, Cigar addicted, lying scumbag) Churchill.Tony Blur and his "friends of the workers" administration, was complicit in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians, killed before, during and after the "Illegal" Iraq (war) invasion.Need I go on? Still think Labour are the lesser of two weavils? Stuart! A dose of truth and reality often dispels clouds of bullshit and false optimism I've always found! Take once a day, to prevent any reoccurence.
Listing the evils of past Labour governments does precisely nothing to answer the question. How like politicians you are! As for the choice, it's actually a bigger one than normal, as signalled by the fact that business and the press are out against Ed.The only sane argument against Labour would be a pro-Tory one – that workers would be hurt by market upheaval. But I don't expect to find all that many sane arguments here!As for blood, I think you'll find that Marxists and revolutionaries have more of it on their hands than the reformists do.
Oh…now i see you have said what you will do…I needn't have read between the lines.Is your constituency a safe Labour seat? If so why not vote for Green or Tusc or NHS Party..Or is it a Tory seat and tactically better voting for the LibDems or Ukip to ensure a Tory isn't elected?The Lesser Evil option doesn't always mean Labour, does it?…
I am not on Facebook so this bit of info is belated "Why i dun it"by Russell Brand, outlining his reasonshttp://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/msg/1430911210.htmlMy first question is this remark
Quote:We decided to endorse Labour before we approached them for the interview.Who is the We or has he raised hiself to the ranks of the royalty with a royal We?
Quote:People that know a lot more about this than me, and probably you, advised me that we’ll be better off rucking with a Labour government than a Conservative oneUmm…which people and who decided they have a higher political knowledge?…Against elitism , but touch the forelock to them, nevertheless…they know best …
Quote:It feels like it does and when the next administration fails to deliver because of the limitations of parliamentary politics I’ll happily participate in setting it up. With you.Not with you, would be my answer in the future…
Quote:vote Labour is an optimistic punt that the degeneration of Britain will be slowed down and the lives of the most vulnerable will be a little more bearable than they’d’ve been under the Tories. Nothing more ambitious than that.And he has no concept of the wider consequences of creating despair and desolation by creating disllusionment. And when it came down to it , his reasons are:
Quote:My fundamentalist abstemiousness became untenable because of mates making practical pleas of varying import; 1. “My brother has MS, if the Tories get in, his independent Living Fund will be cut and he’ll have to go in a home or move into mine…” 2. “My kids can’t do a production at school because of budget cuts…” 3. “My daughter can’t go to university because we can’t afford to pay a student loan back…” 4. “Our drug treatment day care program is being shut down due to cuts…Each and every one can be laid at Labour's door too…1. Labour said that although England will now be the only UK nation not to retain an Independent Living Fund (ILF) to support severely disabled people to continue to live in the community they too will close it from June 2015. 2. Labour cut education 3. Labour introduced fees and loans 4. Labour cut drug-addiction treatment fundingWho has been feeding Brand the supposed facts?
A vote for all parties except this one legitimizes capitalism and so ligitimizes wage slavery. If you're looking for a better deal out of capitalism, the more workers who spoil their ballot the better. Faced with decreasing legitimacy our owners, in order to keep us descrete will be forced to increase the rate they brush crumbs off the table.
As for blood, I think you'll find that Marxists and revolutionaries have more of it on their hands than the reformists do. Well Stuart, it would appear that your grasp of history leaves something to be desired! if you actually believe your statement, "As for blood, I think you'll find that Marxists and revolutionaries have more of it on their hands than the reformists do" holds any factual validity whatsoever.If you had said Lenin, Trotsky, Pol Pot, Mao, et al, then that would have been a, possibly valid statement. Then again, the reformists in the US have been rampaging around the planet since 1945 and have killed quite a few bushel basket fulls, of folk. So Stuart, please get your facts right
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