Russell Brand
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alanjjohnstone wrote:Whatever his intent, Brand simply offered an Establishment figure who from his family, educational and job background skilled in debate, a vehicle to expand and justify his views, with Brand offering a counter-argument that would not be a socialist. Brand, simply, let Miliband off the hook too often and i felt was supportive of Miliband's position. Whatever happened to Brand's fundamental anti-capitalism. He treated Miliband as an ally, even if he has got differences, not as a class enemy as Miliband effective is…Sadly disappointed by Brand in this clip..
I agree, he sounds like the usual left wing rant. Some one else must have written his book. Cos his opinions on this video contradict what he wrote in it.
DJP wrote:Last time I checked this wasn't the Russell Brand fan clubSo agreeing with someone makes you a fan? That makes you a fan of a lot of people.We can oppose religion and reformism andwWe can either take the piss and push them away or we can try and convince them.No wonder the party is so small. Perhaps I am alone but I want none socialists to become socialists and join the party.I don't want to be a member of a piss taking sect.
"Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, and you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost." – John Quincy Adams
I agree. He played the anti-Tory card so much that he was almost calling for an anti-Tory vote. Miliband must be quite pleased, though I suspect most of Brand's following will vote Green.. And he failed to challenge Miliband's pitch for gradualist refformism. And what this new word: Euphoria or is it Euforia or even Uforia?Anyway here it is for 15 minutes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDZm9_uKtyo
Not that it comes as any surprise to some of us but Brand has finally let the cat out of the bag and called for people living in Brighton to vote for Caroline Lucas.“People that live in Brighton Pavilion should definitely vote for you,” he told Lucas in an interview on his YouTube channelTurning to the camera, he said: “Are you a person that lives in Brighton Pavilion? If you are, you should definitely vote for this person, Caroline Lucas.”http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/russell-brand-drops-hisantivoting-stance-and-says-people-should-vote-to-reelect-caroline-lucas-of-the-green-party-10216475.html
The Green Party – "sensible people with sensible policies" , BrandI think this is what we regularly come up against….Whereas even the Green manifesto promises are viewed as practical and feasible, socialism is rarely seen as a viable alternative to capitalism. In fact, the basic nature of capitalism is seen as "common-sense" and although many people want a different type of world, just and equal, socialism as we define it, simply is not an option.Carry on in the same manner as we are doing? Re-invent socialism as something else, much as Zeitgeist did?We cannot change our content so all we can do is address our presentation of it but should we discard the baggage of our past and dump our history, even if such a choice is open to us? Is there a middle way to take…easy enough for the reformists …New Labour…21st Century Socialism…(Didn't one – Marxism Today- actually decide to transform into a think-tank) How and in what way do we re-label and re-brand ourselves?Our case for socialism isn't simply just sensible it is logical and sure how we offer it has to be logical too…but in what sort of approach?I don't thisnk these questions i have posed are unanswerable. Well, perhaps they are for just one person to successfully solve, but we have a collective knowledge of the past to tap into, a shared unbroken political party experience to refer to. We have to sit down and have a serious group-think about ourselves as a Party and how we express our principles.We all have our friends, many closer than even family, but why are they not members? We have co-workers who throw themselves into union activity either as resistance or aspiration for better surroundings but they decline to involve themselves in our type of politics that seeks the same for all people so why their reluctance? We need to not only philosophise about such issues at ADM or Conference but to paraphrase and parrot Marx we need to take steps and act …even if it may mean having to change ourselves in that process. Occupy and Brand despite glaring weaknesses did signify there is a route possible, very roughly indicated, for us to take and difficult as it is reading the map. …but as a Party of members with an agreed aim, we do at least have a compass to start off in the right direction.On another thread Howard gave his personal approach…some may not fully agree but i think he is right on one basic belief …to be inclusive and not exclusive…How can holding a principled position on membership criteria match this aspiration of becoming a class organisation…a peoples' …party is another thing we must ask ourselves.
Previously on the forums I had been very critical of Brand, and our approaches to him, however, I do think that the party, and individual comrades were right to attempt to engage with him, there did appear to be a convergence between the party 's ideas and at least some of what Brand was talking about. Even after Brand current interventions into the electoral arena, I think these attempts should continue. However I think it is important that we are also open in what seperates us From Brand as much as what we have in common. Mr Brand has been pursued by all sorts seeking his endorsement, most happy to conceal their fundamental opposition to virtually everything Mr brand has been advocating (https://www.swp.org.uk/resource/762) in order to cynically use him to recruit for them. As socialists we should criticise honestly, where we think he is mistaken and agree where we think he is correct,if we censor ourselves in order to ingratiate ourselves then we are guilty of both condescending Brand and prostituting ourselves.
In news that will surprise no-one but a handful of those captivated by the Brandwagon, the messiah has declared "People who live in Brighton Pavilion should definitely vote for you.” to Caroline Lucas (http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/apr/30/russell-brand-endorses-green-mp-caroline-lucas-general-election-ed-miliband), deigning to endorse Howard Pilott the Socialist Party candidate standing in the same constituency. All of which could have been predicted last year. Why we should keep crawling to Brand to 'go one step further' and 'recognising [his] courage and honesty' or praising '[his] welcome window into reality' is a mystery to me.
jondwhite wrote:All of which could have been predicted last year. Why we should keep crawling to Brand to 'go one step further' and 'recognising [his] courage and honesty' or praising '[his] welcome window into reality' is a mystery to me.It was predicted by some of us 18 months ago.http://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/forum/general-discussion/brand-and-paxman?page=4#comment-9012
Darren redstar wrote:Previously on the forums I had been very critical of Brand, and our approaches to him, however, I do think that the party, and individual comrades were right to attempt to engage with him, there did appear to be a convergence between the party 's ideas and at least some of what Brand was talking about. Even after Brand current interventions into the electoral arena, I think these attempts should continue. However I think it is important that we are also open in what seperates us From Brand as much as what we have in common. Mr Brand has been pursued by all sorts seeking his endorsement, most happy to conceal their fundamental opposition to virtually everything Mr brand has been advocating (https://www.swp.org.uk/resource/762) in order to cynically use him to recruit for them. As socialists we should criticise honestly, where we think he is mistaken and agree where we think he is correct,if we censor ourselves in order to ingratiate ourselves then we are guilty of both condescending Brand and prostituting ourselves.This speaks volumes . I look forward to the discussion suggested by Alan about where we are going wrong.Brand suggests voters vote for Greens and we have members suddenly deciding to 'contribute' to this thread with 'told you so' and members almost ejaculating with pleasure. Brand a possible socialist has probably looked at the haters and sectarians on this forum and turned away.Do you want people in the media to suggest to workers that tha SPGB has a good case. Perhaps the 'greens' were not nasty, sarcastic and judgemental while constantly looking for the 'fault' they could jump on.We shouldn't 'go cap in hands' we should't 'engage with him'? Who could argue with that but do you talk to all who come to meetings in such a manner?There is more to being a socialist than voting for the SPGB and believing in a nice world with peace, no states where everything is free and hunkydori.Do you want political programs and their 'massiahs to discuss revolution or would you prefer to remain in obscurity.I find the suggestion that I am a member of a 'brand fan club' inaccurate, offensive, unnecessary and a challenge to my integrity and socialist credentials as is your condemnation of members for trying to engage with others as engratiating, prostitution etc.
Don't they make a lovely couple? Obviously a relationship that's been smouldering for some time. From the Guardian six months ago.
We should be engaging with Green supporters including Brand. I want non-socialist to understand our case and apply to join. How about you?
I think people might missing the point somewhat with Russel Brand. Whilst he may have his own peculiar input into what he says etc. What matters is not himself as some kind of Icon, but that his general and somewhat diffuse and imprecise 'message' reflects and resonates with a significant demographic proportion of the population. And he would be nothing in that respect if people didn’t like what he was saying. Notwithstanding that there might be a strong element of simple and mindless adolescent rebellion in it. It should be positive for us I think as 'it' or 'he' seems to transcend that more historically orthodox brand of the rebellious ‘youth’ re 1970’s bolshevism and the nihilism of punk etc etc. ‘His’or ‘the’ core ideas of the ‘phenomena’ as regards at least a critique and understanding of ‘capitalism’ etc are pretty close to some of ours surely?Although I have to confess I have not been paying anything other than a superficial attention to it all and haven't even read his book yet.
Hilarious isn't it Vin.The haters pop up with the "Told you he wasn't a socialist", "We said he was just another leftie", drone.As far as I'm concerned the Brand thing reminds me of my experience of punk rock when I was a teenager in the 1980's. By then it was old hat, no longer fashionable. For me the anger of punk resonated within me, sure it was mindless unidirectional energy for the most, but it stirred something in a generation or two that was there to be tapped into. As I've said before he's creating fertile ground. The job of the SPGB/WSM is to take advantage of that and plant as many socialist seeds as possible.There appears to be a morbid cynicism within the SPGB. It's almost as if the frustrating fight for socialism ends up directed at people, simply because they haven't or can't go the extra mile.
I plead guilty of that From my earliest comment:-
Quote:"But before we change the world, we need to change the way we think. ..Total revolution of consciousness and our entire social, political and economic system is what interests me, but that’s not on the ballot." http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/10/russell-brand-on-revolution. Apart from that , all i really find is pub-talk. And all the kudos Brand is receiving is simply from his fame…goodness…a clown who has political ideas…as if that is even something unique. You and i and every member and sympathiser must have met and drank with Russel Brands of the world. Usually, their politics disappears when something more interesting comes on TV or becomes the fashion. I'm such a cynic.”Indeed I was a cynic and proved wrong…his political participation has persisted. October 2013 I remarked:-
Quote:If we are to jump on the band-wagon we should be clear on what points it is to be and what direction we should steer the discourse. Fact is we have already lost this one particular piece of propaganda prize and missed the boat. It has indeed gone viral as Imposs says, and our independent voice simply isn't vocal or loud enough to draw attention to ourselves…no more spilt milk, water under bridges etc etc. Let’s move on to some practical proposals of propaganda. Nor do i think we should be in the business of searching for celebrity endorsement, no matter how appealing.That observation, however, I still stand by. We had 246 posts on the other thread and now have 44 posts on this one.Surely now we must have reached a conclusion and some resolve….ummmm…nope, not yet…As i have said…that extra mile SP referred to must be in the general direction towards socialism, and quite frankly, my dears, we are not so sure about the route. I for one think we should acquire compass and a map, and perhaps the Twitter and social media can serve as our GPS to show where we are actually at on that journey.
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