John McDonnell and “Socialism”

[ALB]

McDonnell told the Labour Party Conference yesterday that they should no longer be afraid to use the word "socialism". Oh dear, they're not going to start pretending that they stand for socialism again, are they? Of course all he means is more government interference in the workings of the capitalist economy. Since he's talking about government subsidies to get manufacturing industry going again he must be secretly pleased that Brexit won the referendum. EU rules don't allow this and this would exclude British exports from free access to the single market too. It's back to the state capitalist siege economy that the Left imagined "socialism" was 40-50 years ago. Increasing wages by law is another piece of pie in the sky.

[Anonymous]

ALB said:

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McDonnell told the Labour Party Conference yesterday that they should no longer be afraid to use the word "socialism". Oh dear, they're not going to start pretending that they stand for socialism again, are they? Of course all he means is more government interference in the workings of the capitalist economy. 

Yes, yes, ALB, I know and I agree – but the vast majority of the population, here and elsewhere, think that what McDonnel has outlined IS socialism.A miniscule percentage of the population has an inkling of what the SP means by socialism.So my question is still – bearing the above in mind – if the people who count the votes see “WORLD SOCIALISM” on the ballot papers, they are just going to think that “oh, there is someone else who wants more government interference in the workings of capitalism – why didn’t he or she just put a cross in the Labour box instead of spoiling their vote”.Spoiling your ballot paper in this way surely is a pointless gesture at this point in time [until or unless the majority conception of socialism changes).

[ALB]

Of course it's a gesture but the purpose is not to convert the vote counters. What's important is that, in saying during elkection times that we're going to do this, we are making the political point that we reject all the parties on offer because they all support capitalism in one form or another. (Actually, in practice, I suspect that many of our Party members don't do this. They simply abstain. ) But what are you suggesting we do: vote for a so-called "lesser evil"? Or would you right something else on the ballot paper".You are really raising a broader question which we have often discussed and that is whether we should continue to describe ourselves as "socialist" and say we stand for "socialism". We're not likely to change this for all sorts of reason (including emotional) and, if we did, when we described what we do want, some people (more than you suggest) are going to say "ah, but isn't that socialism".The fact that some Labour leaders are now talking again about "socialism" works both ways. It confuses what "socialism" is but, like Bernie Sanders in America, allows us to get in on the debate by saying what socialism means or should mean. There's some mileage in us saying "oh no, McDonnell doesn't stand for socialism but state capitalism. Here's what socialism really means".

[Anonymous]

Hi ALBI see you've answered my question back on the other thread.I'll go back there and leave this for McDonnell's policies.Meel

[ALB]

Actually, your comment there was more appropriate here !

[ALB]

Meanwhile just heard Tom Watson, Labour's deputy leader, proclaim:

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Capitalism, comrades, is not the enemy.

That's a more accurate and honest statement of the Labour Party's position.

[moderator2]

Worth a re-read…from almost 10 years agohttp://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/socialist-standard/2000s/2007/no-1231-march-2007/greasy-pole-if-john-were-prime-minister

[alanjjohnstone]

Grrrrrrr…wrong ID …comment should be this one

[Young Master Smeet]

http://press.labour.org.uk/post/151053788194/jeremy-corbyn-leader-of-the-labour-party-speechCorbyn wants municipal socialism:

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But I want to go further because we want local government to go further and put public enterprise back into the heart of our economy and services to meet the needs of local communities, municipal socialism for the 21st century, as an engine of local growth and development.

"public enterprise" and

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But we will also be pressing our own Brexit agenda including the freedom to intervene in our own industries without the obligation to liberalise or privatise our public services and building a new relationship with Europe based on cooperation and internationalism.

and

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We know how great this country could be, for all its people, with a new political and economic settlement.With new forms of democratic public ownership, driven by investment in the technology and industries of the future, with decent jobs, education and housing for all with local services run by and for people not outsourced to faceless corporations.That’s not backward-looking, it’s the very opposite.It’s the socialism of the 21st century.

and, playing to the home crowd

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Let us do it, in the spirit of the great Scots-born Liverpool football manager Bill Shankly who said:“The socialism I believe in, is everybody working for the same goal and everybody having a share in the rewards. That’s how I see football, that’s how I see life.”We are not all Bill Shanklys. Each of us comes to our socialism from our own experiences.

[ALB]

John McDonnell also played to the home crowd but then he's a Scouser himself. The trouble he has a rather limited imagination:

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In the birthplace of John Lennon, it falls to us to inspire people to imagine.Imagine the society that we can create. It's a society that's radically transformed, radically fairer, more equal and more democratic. Yes, based upon a prosperous economy but an economy that's economically and environmentally sustainable and where that prosperity is shared by all.That's our vision to rebuild and transform Britain.In this party you no longer have to whisper it, it's called Socialism.

[Author]

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