Jeremy Corbyn the person

August 2022 Forums General discussion Jeremy Corbyn the person

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 64 total)
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  • #84187
    jondwhite
    Participant
    #114154
    SocialistPunk
    Participant

    So we've got Corbyn defending the right to free speech, in contrast to Cameron and his chums from the Bullingdon Club, those good natured "wabble wousers" standing up to unscrupulous restaurateurs with their daddies cheque books.But let's be fair, just because a bunch of rich boys, some of whom are high ranking Tory politicians currently in power, join a silly club while at university has no bearing on class division in society? Or does it?

    #114155
    jondwhite
    Participant

    Jeremy Corbyn blog entryhttp://www.labour.org.uk/blog/entry/we-are-all-leaders

    Quote:
    We are all leaders, each and every one of us in the Labour Party and in the labour movement. Every time we convince someone to vote Labour, every time we challenge prejudice, every mind we change through well-reasoned argument, every injustice we stand up to, that is leadership. It changes the world.Being Labour Party leader gives whoever is elected a greater platform and with greater responsibility to influence that change. I didn’t enter this race with any personal ambition, and I don’t have any now. What I do have is a deep passion and ambition that together we will change our party, the way we do politics, and change our country.[/QUOTE

    Quote:
    ]During this campaign, I have refused to either engage in, or respond to, any personal attacks. Political disagreements should be had politely and respectfully. No one has ever been inspired by the yah-boo politics of name-calling and abuse. It trivialises politics and demeans those politicians who engage in it.So let us stick to the issues, and there is none more important than the humanitarian crisis of the unprecedented number of refugees across the world. This isn’t a migrant crisis, it is a human crisis which must not become a crisis of our humanity.
    #114156
    jondwhite
    Participant

    Jeremy Corbyn blog entryhttp://www.labour.org.uk/blog/entry/we-are-all-leaders

    Quote:
    We are all leaders, each and every one of us in the Labour Party and in the labour movement. Every time we convince someone to vote Labour, every time we challenge prejudice, every mind we change through well-reasoned argument, every injustice we stand up to, that is leadership. It changes the world.Being Labour Party leader gives whoever is elected a greater platform and with greater responsibility to influence that change. I didn’t enter this race with any personal ambition, and I don’t have any now. What I do have is a deep passion and ambition that together we will change our party, the way we do politics, and change our country.
    Quote:
    During this campaign, I have refused to either engage in, or respond to, any personal attacks. Political disagreements should be had politely and respectfully. No one has ever been inspired by the yah-boo politics of name-calling and abuse. It trivialises politics and demeans those politicians who engage in it.So let us stick to the issues, and there is none more important than the humanitarian crisis of the unprecedented number of refugees across the world. This isn’t a migrant crisis, it is a human crisis which must not become a crisis of our humanity.
    #114157
    jondwhite
    Participant

    Here's an article on the bike Jeremy Corbyn rode and the Times described as Chairman Mao style.http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/chairman-mao-corbyn-bike-475

    #114158
    robbo203
    Participant
    jondwhite wrote:
    Jeremy Corbyn blog entryhttp://www.labour.org.uk/blog/entry/we-are-all-leaders

    Quote:
    We are all leaders, each and every one of us in the Labour Party and in the labour movement. Every time we convince someone to vote Labour, every time we challenge prejudice, every mind we change through well-reasoned argument, every injustice we stand up to, that is leadership. It changes the world.Being Labour Party leader gives whoever is elected a greater platform and with greater responsibility to influence that change. I didn’t enter this race with any personal ambition, and I don’t have any now. What I do have is a deep passion and ambition that together we will change our party, the way we do politics, and change our country.
    Quote:
    During this campaign, I have refused to either engage in, or respond to, any personal attacks. Political disagreements should be had politely and respectfully. No one has ever been inspired by the yah-boo politics of name-calling and abuse. It trivialises politics and demeans those politicians who engage in it.So let us stick to the issues, and there is none more important than the humanitarian crisis of the unprecedented number of refugees across the world. This isn’t a migrant crisis, it is a human crisis which must not become a crisis of our humanity.

     This is interesting – the refusal to engage in personal attacks – if only as a way of calling the bluff of his opponents.  It is a line of argument that the SPGB should take up too and rigorously adhere to for if nothing else it exposes the desperation of others to divert attention from the  weakness of their own arguments.So yes let us by all means "stick to the issues".  Because it is by discussing the issues and not the person, that the weakness in Corbyn's  whole reformist platform will become apparent, notwithstanding his good intentions and laudable sentiments.I am however slightly sceptical about this "we are all leaders" approach that Corbyn is advancing here – not because I doubt that he sincerely means it  but because his whole appeal – as this whole Corbynmania phenomenon  has shown – is that for his hundreds or thousands of supporters, he as a person has made a profound difference to the political landscape  that is Britain. In other words he is being regarded by them as some kind of saviour figure even if he himself would like them to regard himself as just one more leader amongst hundreds of thousands of other  "leaders"You cant really have leaders in this sense with this implying followers and that is essentially what his supporters are

    #114159
    ALB
    Keymaster
    robbo203 wrote:
    I am however slightly sceptical about this "we are all leaders" approach that Corbyn is advancing here – not because I doubt that he sincerely means it  but because his whole appeal – as this whole Corbynmania phenomenon  has shown – is that for his hundreds or thousands of supporters, he as a person has made a profound difference to the political landscape  that is Britain. In other words he is being regarded by them as some kind of saviour figure even if he himself would like them to regard himself as just one more leader amongst hundreds of thousands of other  "leaders"You cant really have leaders in this sense with this implying followers and that is essentially what his supporters are

    I'm not sure that this is entirely fair. At the West London Peace Market yesterday we met 2 of the 251,417 who voted for him in the Labour Leadership (sic!) election. One was a long-standing Labour Party member, the other someone who paid £3 to vote and was going to join it. Neither struck us as regarding Corbyn as a "saviour" but more, perhaps, as a symbol of the sort of Labour Party they want.They weren't the only people to ask us about Corbyn of course — everybody's talking about him. I would have thought that it's self-evident that we shouldn't start off by saying "he's just a reformist" or he's what Private Eye said we said he was(but which we didn't) a "capitalist shill" (whatever a shill is, anybody know, or was this a misprint for shit?). Needless to say we didn't. We started by saying things like "we don't support the Labour Party" or "at least he's livened up politics" before saying that neither he nor the Labour Party will be able to change things because it's capitalism that's the problem, etc, etc.  (and here's a copy of the Socialist Standard). One person liked our description of him as "Harold Wilson warmed up" but then he was an ex-member of the anarcho-syndicalist SolFed.

    #114160
    robbo203
    Participant
    ALB wrote:
     I'm not sure that this is entirely fair. At the West London Peace Market yesterday we met 2 of the 251,417 who voted for him in the Labour Leadership (sic!) election. One was a long-standing Labour Party member, the other someone who paid £3 to vote and was going to join it. Neither struck us as regarding Corbyn as a "saviour" but more, perhaps, as a symbol of the sort of Labour Party they want. 

     I agree it might not be entirely fair to describe Corbyn's supporters in this manner – as a sort of saviour figure rather a mere symbol – although the nature of capitalist politics (within which the Labour Party is firmly embedded) is such  that they are more likely to regard him as the former than the latter.  After all, the implicit contractual understanding between the capitalist politician and his/her constituents is that in return for the latter's electoral support he or she will undertake do things on their behalf that would benefit them.  So the whole set up is predisposed to encourage or induce voters to look upon their political leaders as would be saviours. A few might look upon them otherwise – as mere symbols.  People are not all the same (thankfully) and there is always a spectrum of behaviour but it is my impression (though I could be wrong) that the majority, if not the vast majority, of Corbyn's supporters look upon him as a sort of saviour figure.  Which is not to blame Corbyn, of course. The two individuals you met may count as part of that few.  But presumably there is certain amount of self selection of the evidence here inasmuch as they – presumably – voluntarily approached you at the West London Peace Market.  Which means they are probably closer in outlook to the SPGB than your average Corbynite  and are thus more likely to regard him as a mere symbol than a saviour

    #114161
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    ALB wrote:
    evident that we shouldn't start off by saying "he's just a reformist" or he's what Private Eye said we said he was(but which we didn't) a "capitalist shill" (whatever a shill is, anybody know, or was this a misprint for shit?).

    Stooge 

    #114162
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    ALB wrote:
    I'm not sure that this is entirely fair. At the West London Peace Market yesterday we met 2 of the 251,417 who voted for him in the Labour Leadership (sic!) election. One was a long-standing Labour Party member, the other someone who paid £3 to vote and was going to join it. Neither struck us as regarding Corbyn as a "saviour" but more, perhaps, as a symbol of the sort of Labour Party they want.

    I agree. The same applies to Brand. They say  things that people want said. They are not seen as leaders to follow. Any more than a speaker of the party is to us. 

    #114163
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    ALB wrote:
    ……or he's what Private Eye said we said he was(but which we didn't) a "capitalist shill" (whatever a shill is, anybody know, or was this a misprint for shit?).

    Shill.  A person who poses as a customer in order to decoy others into participating, as at a gambling house, auction, confidence game, etc., or who publicises or praises something or someone for reasons of self-interest, personal profit, friendship or loyalty.

    #114164
    ALB
    Keymaster

    An Americanism, then?http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/62859/origin-of-the-word-shill-shillaber

    Quote:
    was used for anyone who lured the target into any sort of crooked game (as well as into brothels, strip-clubs and other places where they were likely to come out substantially poorer).

    Strong stuff.  But we never used the word.

    #114165
    SocialistPunk
    Participant

    Looks like the free advertising wasn't so free after all.Poorly thought out strategy has a habit of backfiring.I guess you either love it or hate it.

    #114166
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    ALB wrote:
    An Americanism, then?http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/62859/origin-of-the-word-shill-shillaber

    Quote:
    was used for anyone who lured the target into any sort of crooked game (as well as into brothels, strip-clubs and other places where they were likely to come out substantially poorer).

    Strong stuff.  But we never used the word.

    They themselves are always pointing the fingure at the newspapers. I guess the 'Eye' is no better than any of the others. Full of lies and distortion for entertainment value.Another letter? 

    #114167
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    To be fair, he will if elected  almost certainly become a capitalist stooge but at the moment he appears to be a capitalist irritant.

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