Jeremy Corbyn the person

[jondwhite]

Presumably Jez would not approve of thishttp://www.redmolotov.com/catalogue/tshirts/all/jeremy-corbyn-poster-tshirt.html

[jondwhite]

No doubt this will be used by those wishing to portray Corbyn as a sainthttp://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/sep/28/jeremy-corbyn-rescue-labour-leader-frees-delegates-wheelchairand will be resolutely brushed under the carpet by those wishing to portray Corbyn as a sinner or a threat to your family securityhttp://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/sep/13/tory-theme-corbyn-threat-national-security-criticised

[jondwhite]

So Corbyn's cognitive dissonance / hypocrisy emerges. On warmongering Labour MPs being subjected to abuse'As we have both said many times, abuse and intimidation have no place in politics. And the party as a whole will not accept such behaviour, from whatever quarter it comes,'but on bombing'Today's Shadow Cabinet agreed to back Jeremy Corbyn's recommendation of a free vote on the Government's proposal to authorise UK bombing in Syria.  '

[jondwhite]

good satirical piecehttp://eveningharold.com/2015/12/04/jeremy-corbyn-now-abandoned-by-everyone-apart-from-voters/

[ALB]

jondwhite wrote:

So Corbyn's cognitive dissonance / hypocrisy emerges. On warmongering Labour MPs being subjected to abuse'As we have both said many times, abuse and intimidation have no place in politics. And the party as a whole will not accept such behaviour, from whatever quarter it comes,'but on bombing'Today's Shadow Cabinet agreed to back Jeremy Corbyn's recommendation of a free vote on the Government's proposal to authorise UK bombing in Syria.  '

I don't understand what you're getting at. Where is "cognitive dissonance/hypocrisy" in the two positions?

[jondwhite]

Blowing to pieces the base of ISIS is ok for Labour MPs but the crowd with a megaphone outside warmongerer Stella Creasys office is intimidating.Corbyn may be being a shrewd politician to keep his hold on Labour but this is not morally consistent.

[SocialistPunk]

jondwhite wrote:

Blowing to pieces the base of ISIS is ok for Labour MPs but the crowd with a megaphone outside warmongerer Stella Creasys office is intimidating.

I doubt if anyone here would care if Daesh were wiped off the face of this earth. I expect we would all welcome it. But as we know, and the protestors know, innocent civilians will inevitably get caught up in the process.You are correct JD, the MPs who support layering chaos on top of chaos seem unable to see the hypocrisy in thinking they are victims of unfair abuse while supporting inevitable "collateral damage".The argument to support this view, is that Daesh are already killing thousands and must be stopped. And the mindset behind thinking that violence and chaos, heaped on top of violence and chaos is the solution, can be summed up with the famous quote from the Vietnam war.

Quote:

"It became necessary to destroy the town to save it."

[jondwhite]

Recent reports suggest Labour party public support has dropped whilst its membership has increased.

[Anonymous]

Bit surprised about the cover of your June Socialist Standard.Quite a catchy headline as it stands, but unfair to lump Corbyn in with the conservative leaders.  Many on this forum, and out there among voters, think he is basically “a decent man”, and a principled one.McDonnell and Corbyn may well think that they can “chain the beast” that is capitalism and will find out in time that they cannot.  They will be forced to make unpleasant compromises.  I know this, you know this.But I just don’t think you will win any friends in waters you may want to fish in with this cover.There is a qualitative difference between Jeremy Corbyn and the leaders you have lumped him in with.

[robbo203]

Meel wrote:

Bit surprised about the cover of your June Socialist Standard.Quite a catchy headline as it stands, but unfair to lump Corbyn in with the conservative leaders.  Many on this forum, and out there among voters, think he is basically “a decent man”, and a principled one.McDonnell and Corbyn may well think that they can “chain the beast” that is capitalism and will find out in time that they cannot.  They will be forced to make unpleasant compromises.  I know this, you know this.But I just don’t think you will win any friends in waters you may want to fish in with this cover.There is a qualitative difference between Jeremy Corbyn and the leaders you have lumped him in with.

 Yes I would agree.  Corbyn is not a socialist as we understand the term and he leads a party that is unequivocally pro capitalist  Nevertheless he comes across and is widely regarded (even by his opponents) as a decent and principled man but, according to his opponents, lacking in the qualities that make him a strong leader, For socialists, of course, that hardly constitutes a defect. On the contrary. It is pretty disgusting the way the media have been treating Corbyn.  The negativety is unprecedented.  According to my newsfeed today:Earlier Labour’s deputy leader, Tom Watson, became the most senior party figure to call on Corbyn to resign, intensifying the pressure on the embattled leader on a day of drama in Westminster.“It’s a great tragedy. He does have a members’ mandate, but those members who join a political party know that you also need a parliamentary mandate if you’re to form a government,” Watson told the BBC. What a damning indictment of the Labour Party and its anti democratic practices that the parliamentary body considers itself to be above and separate from the party membership who elected Corbyn into power in the first place.  I think he is right to face down these machiavellian manipulators as a matter of principle and I dont think there will be many who will lose much sleep if the lot of them get deselected come the next General Election

[alanjjohnstone]

It's the case – not the face…even when it comes to our opponents.I heard Hitler was great company at the dinner table and he was also kind to animals 

[Anonymous]

Quote:

It's the case – not the face…even when it comes to our opponents.

I disagree, Alan.  The world isn’t black and white.  It’s also a question of being canny.

Quote:

I heard Hitler was great company at the dinner table and he was also kind to animals

Are you drawing a comparison between Corbyn and Hitler?Robbo, I completely agree with you about the dreadful way Corbyn has been treated from the word go, by the media and his own colleagues.  It has been relentless.  I have no idea how he is holding it together.

[alanjjohnstone]

"Are you drawing a comparison between Corbyn and Hitler?"Not at all. Simply reinforcing the position we have that personalities and personal qualities are not what we are concerned about. We do not attack capitalists as individuals per se – we attack the system and their support for it as beneficiaries. Warren Buffet might have his heart in all the right places but it is his hand on his wallet that we draw attention to. The issue of criticising Corbyn stemming an earlier Standard cover featuring him (September 1915) has already been subject to debate on the forum. I have no desire for a re-run of how the Party should treat him. Regardless of how nice he is as a person, a subjective issue since i don't believe anybody on the forum knows him personally except perhaps in the passing, objectively he is a class enemy. Scargill and Tony Benn always graciously accepted a Standard on the occasions i gave them one but politeness goes with the course for political leaders.

[Anonymous]

John Pilger's take on Corbyn…

[SocialistPunk]

It would appear that the movers and shakers in the Labour party want rid of Corbyn, because they think the way to attract disgruntled voters, who've turned to the "right wing" in the form of UKIP, is to lean to the right as well.Corbyn being on the "left" would no doubt resist such a shallow, unprincipled play for voter acceptance. 

[Author]

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