Wez
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Clearly TS cannot be influenced by rational debate and anything we say will not change his mind. We have to ask why he has to believe what he does. I think there are three elements symptomatic of the Leftist mindset and ideology: a) the need to identify with authoritarian structures and the power and leadership they personify, or seem to personify. b)paradoxically, a hatred of US power. c) the inability to imagine an alternative to capitalism (because it does not exist yet) alongside a desperate need to believe those who proclaim that socialism does exist somewhere. As comrades know I’ve never believed that the Left are necessarily more likely to achieve socialist consciousness than the rest of the population and TS is a great example of why.
‘delusional adherence to Stalinism’
Alan – that question is relevant and entirely within the realms of psychology – something that Reich (who you’ve already quoted) and the Frankfurt School dedicated their lives to try and understand.
‘I have no idea who you are talking about and nor do I care. You are a cowardly reactionary who snipes from the sidelines rather than engage in debate like a grown up. Sad little budgie.’
Sadly the usual mixture of ignorance and arrogance that characterizes the Left. Can you not get it in your head that no socialist is interested in your defense of a militaristic, fascistic one party state that masquerades as some kind of ‘socialism’.
‘I mere saying that I can sympathise with left-wingers when Stalinists slander Trotsky.’
Just out of curiosity Alan, why are you interested in an internecine struggle between Bolsheviks? Is it born of esoteric historical inquiry? Like the internal struggles within the Nazi Party, which were similar, they represent a kind of morbid curiosity but they have no relevance or importance for socialists.
‘Wez, I wouldn’t say TS is representative of any substantial number of leftists. He is a contrarian outlier and outright liar.’
Alan – don’t many Leftists still cling to the illusion that Russia was once ‘socialist’ and that China and Cuba still are?One good thing about the ‘TrueScotsman’ is that he reminds us just how reactionary many on the Left are and that socialists have no political common ground with them at any level.
‘Instead of being a pedantic bore, how about addressing the actual meat of my argument?’
So what is the ‘actual meat’ of your argument? That the ruling class of China is superior in some way to that of the US or European nations? I’m afraid that socialists find that kind of meaningless debate futile and boring.TS wrote: “It was the Europeans, principally the UK, France and Poland that were trying to encourage Germany and the USSR to fight it out against one another. The Soviets were aware of this and signed the non-aggression pact so that those powers would have to join the fight the Soviets knew was coming.”
This is all very ‘bourgeois’ in identifying a whole nation with it’s ruling class and it’s economic/imperialist interests. The ideologies of nationalism and religion were used to disguise the real motives for war of which, as usual, the vast majority were unaware. The idea that all ‘Europeans’ were trying to encourage Germany and the USSR to fight it out is just nonsense. Also the idea that the ‘Soviets’ still existed in Russia at that time is likewise nonsense.
TS – why should any socialist give a flying f**k about the Machiavellian tactics of Stalin or any of the other parasitic warlords of the time? The only important element is the reasons why the working class was willing and able to murder each other for no other reason than these power hungry degenerates desired it. The second world war was just a sequel to the unfinished business of the first world war which was enabled by the leftist betrayal of the second international.
ALB – You’re asking the likes of George Monbiot to accept a level of determinism no idealist will tolerate – presumably like the rest of his ilk he will insist on the existence of ‘free will’ and the ability of the individual to make moral choices.
‘In any event, scandals involving the ruling class are of no interest to socialists. Even if they were all saints they would still be exploiters and privileged parasites.’
Agreed ALB, but isn’t always worth pointing out the hypocrisies of the ruling parasites especially when their political lickspittles drone on about the importance of ‘law and order’ and that justice applies equally to all?ALB – You have to be careful when labeling anything as a ‘conspiracy theory’ since this is a favourite ploy used by the mainstream media to dismiss anything that is not ‘on message’ from their employers. Were the WMDs a conspiracy theory? The cover-up of Saville’s crimes a ‘conspiracy theory’? Going back was the Zinoviev letter or the Dreffus affair conspiracy theories? Just occasionally conspiracy theories are true.
Crikey, it’s a sad state of affairs if the bourgeois state can’t cover up the misdeeds of one of it’s own – I’d ask for a tax refund if I was him.
