robbo203
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“Serious question…Is there anything written in MSM you don’t credulously accept as fact?”
Serious question – is there anything written in your right-wing conspiracy sites that you don’t credulously accept as fact? Or for that matter whatever pronouncements are made by your favourite right-wing capitalist regime – Putin’s Russia.
No, I don’t just accept everything that is written in the MSM. I studiously avoid anything published by the Daily Express, for example, which is mostly just material for toilet paper and on a par with some of the sites you rely upon for many of your outlandish and frankly utterly dumb claims.
But nice evasion in the case of your feeble attempt to ridicule my point without bothering to show how it is factually wrong. How is it not the case that Russia’s imperialist invasion of Ukraine will have the unintended consequence of strengthening and unifying NATO imperialism, eh? The very fact that more member states are joining NATO is proof enough of that – never mind all the other evidence that points to the fact that NATO has been strengthened thanks to Putin’s imperialist blunder
It would seem that Russia’s imperialist invasion of Ukraine will have the unintended consequence of strengthening and unifying NATO imperialism as well as contribute to an increase in militarism and sickening jingoism everywhere. Expect military budgets around the world to increase as capitalist states tool up with yet more weapons of mass murder. Thanks, Putin!
“And I am still waiting to hear from you as to why you consider Ukraine to be a “fascist state””
Cos it’s run by nazis.
“but not Russia”
Cos it’s not run by nazis.
“when they are so remarkably similar – right-wing, repressive, authoritarian, capitalist oligarchies.”
Sounds an awful lot like Britain’s government. So Britain is nazi too?
____________________________________________So apparently the reason why Ukraine is a fascist state and Russia is not – despite the fact that they are remarkably similar in the way they are run – is that [moderator deleted] has said so! LOL No need to make any kind of serious comparative study of these two regimes. Just take my word for it, TS seems to be saying. It’s pathetic really. It reminds me of a pair of kids getting into a fight on a school playground for calling each other names: “You’re a Nazi!”, “No I’m not, you’re the nazi!”
There is a serious point to all this which is to demystify and deconstruct the real capitalist motives driving this conflict between these two capitalist states – or rather blocs (since each of the combatants has their own supporters or backers). If Ukraine is truly a fascist state then by the same token so much Russia be and this would make a complete mockery of Putin’s claim that the imperialist invasion of Ukraine was justified because it had as one of its objectives, the goal of “de=nazifying Ukraine”. It stretches credulity to imagine that one “fascist” regime would want to rid another of its “fascism”.
I put these terms in inverted commas because I don’t actually believe either of these regimes is actually fascist in the meaningful sense of the term although they are, to a remarkable extent, mirror images of each other. However, capitalist states need some kind of ideological pretext to engage in war to camouflage their real intentions
Putin’s claim that the war is justified as a means of ridding Ukraine of Nazis is on a par with Ukraine’s claim that it is defending democracy against tyranny. In other words, complete BS
“Here, here Lizzie! All-in, care to remind Bojo’s Brain, Robotomy and Thomas Bore of the thread topic? The Ukraine/Russia conflict.”
Truly Stupid –
Actually, all of my posts on this thread have been on-topic if you care to check…. And I am still waiting to hear from you as to why you consider Ukraine to be a “fascist state” but not Russia when they are so remarkably similar – right-wing, repressive, authoritarian, capitalist oligarchies.
Yet another question you have conveniently squirmed out of answering
Graphical representation of the territorial gains and losses on both sides of the conflict
“Hardly surprising that working people want nothing to do with your tin-pot cult”
A stupid comment on so many levels. And if this debate on the war in Ukraine bores you so much why participate in it?
Proud? It wasn’t my accomplishment. Happy? Yes. The defeat of a fascist state’s army is something to be happy about”
I am still curious as to why TS considers Ukraine to be a fascist state but not Russia as well given that they are both very similar in being authoritarian repressive right-wing corrupt capitalist oligarchies and given that neither of them ostensibly identifies themselves as fascist despite there being fascist minorities in both countries.
Of course, since this information emanates from the Ukrainian regime we can no more regard it as being reliable than we can information emanating from the Russian regime, But anyway for what it is worth here are the figures…..
“information General Staff: Russia has lost 84,600 troops in Ukraine since Feb. 24
Ukraine’s General Staff reported on Nov. 21 that Russia had also lost 2,892 tanks, 5,822 armored fighting vehicles, 4,378 vehicles and fuel tanks, 1,870 artillery systems, 393 multiple launch rocket systems, 209 air defense systems, 278 airplanes, 261 helicopters, 1,537 drones, and 16 boats.”
“Proud? It wasn’t my accomplishment. Happy? Yes. The defeat of a fascist state’s army is something to be happy about”
Why does TS consider Ukraine to be a fascist state but not Russia as well? Neither actually call themselves fascist states, of course, although there are self-identifying fascists in both countries – in both cases a distinct minority. But not calling yourself a fascist (and even pretending to oppose fascism) does not necessarily mean you are not a fascist yourself.
Russia and Ukraine are remarkably similar in both being corrupt authoritarian right-wing capitalist oligarchies that brutally suppress internal opposition. If Ukraine is a fascist state then so too is Russia.
TS comes across as a far-right boorish Trumpist who is also clearly rabidly anti-socialist to the extent that he knows anything about socialism at all. Little wonder he sees no problem in giving unconditional and fervent support to one obnoxious capitalist regime in its territorial dispute with another equally obnoxious capitalist regime when the difference between these regimes is quite frankly, merely skin deep,
I imagine that if Ukraine started going on about wanting to “denazify Russia” from the word go, TS would be all too ready to jump ship and become an ardent supporter of Ukrainian nationalism. It’s just an accident of history that he finds himself supporting Russian capitalism and not Ukrainian capitalism. But it wouldn’t take that much to switch sides
It looks like Russian capitalism is due to contract by 4.2 % this year according to Russia’s own Economy Ministry and the longer-term prospects do not look good with sanctions starting to bite and what with the flight of many trained professional workers. Living standards are declining for the average Russian worker though according to this article not enough yet to trigger serious social unrest. The oligarchic parasite class that the Putin regime represents and serves will doubtless only be marginally inconvenienced
Despite the territorial gains of Russian imperialism in the form of the Donbas region in Ukraine etc the economic outlook is not looking good
The Russian economy is doing “just fine” according to Truly Stupid
I would still like to hear from him about how he reconciles that claim of his with this:
“The Russian economy is shrinking
According to independent analysis by the World Bank, International Monetary Fund and The Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD), 2022 will be a bad year for the Russian economy. Gross Domestic Product (GDP) is expected to drop by at least 5.5% in the best scenario to almost 9% in the worst scenario.”https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/russian-economy-contract-29-2022-economy-minister-2022-09-06/
“Lol. Robotomy thinks that when you want to take a city of 3 million you send 30,000. Genius.”
Remind me – when did I say the Russian imperialist forces wanted to take Kyiv with 30,000 soldiers? I simply said they made an assault on Kyiv as they continue to do with their missile launches today. You like putting words into other people’s mouths, don’t you TS?
________________________“There were two contradictory reports about the BBC article and I couldn’t be arsed discovering which was accurate.”
No stoopid -the contradiction is entirely yours insofar as you cited a BBC report dated 1 July to tell us what you thought the BBC imagined the kill rate was several months later…
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“The UK government for example talks of 15,000 Russian soldiers dead up until 27”
Hahahahahahahahahahaha!”
And Truly Stupid believes the propaganda the Russian military puts out about fatalities among its soldiers
haahahahahahahahaahah!
“What is this, grade 6 stream of consciousness writing? Yawn”.
LOL TS you’ve run out of arguments and now you are reduced to ad homs as your last line of defense. Boy, does it show. You would do well to seek employment as a clown in a circus.
“You said Russian “killed” you pillock, go back and look. 1,000 Russian troops were dying on average per month up until September according to the BBC. If we stick with that number of deaths til now then we can estimate about 8,000 to now.”
You are so muddled you don’t even know what your own sources of evidence are saying. The BBC report you cited was dated July 1 so how could it possibly be true that 1,000 Russian troops were dying on average per month up until September according to this self-same BBC report you cite or do you think the monthly kill rate is fixed? Also the BBC report you cite only refers to Russian soldiers’ deaths that have been individually verified by BBC News Russian – namely 4020 up to 24 June. That does not preclude the possibility that many more might have been killed. The UK government for example talks of 15,000 Russian soldiers dead up until 27 June and the Ukrainian government gives a figure of 34K
“The feint towards Kiev WAS protecting Donbass. It pinned Ukraine’s troops there preventing them from participating in hostilities. But, as I’ve already stated numerous times, protecting Donbass was only one of three war aims. The other two were/are De-Nazification and de-militarization/de-NATOization. All three, it was hoped, could have been achieved through a Ukrainian surrender and resulting peace negotiations. To bring Kiev to the table they would have to feel threatened. This was the reason for the multiple lightning thrusts into Ukraine including toward Kiev. The tactic almost worked but negotiations were scuttled personally by Bojo.”
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The imperialist military incursion into Ukraine by Russian forces is now called a “feint” by our resident Putin bootlicker who continues adamantly to refuse to call a spade a spade. Of course NATO is also to blame and socialists are no less critical of NATO and Ukraine than we are of the Russian regime. Unlike TS with his pro-capitalist outlook, we refuse to take sides in a capitalist war and two wrongs don’t make a right.
The other two reasons for Russia’s military imperialism cited by our apologist for Russian capitalism – denazification and demilitarisation – are BS excuses. The Ukrainian regime is no more – or if you prefer, no less – Nazi than the Russian regime. They are both corrupt authoritarian right-wing capitalist oligarchies remarkably similar in their makeup. As for demilitarisation, there was no chance as I understand it of Ukraine joining NATO according to its own internal rules
This is a capitalist war being fought for the usual capitalist reasons – spheres of influence, resources and so on
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“Russia Finally Admits Weapons Shortage in Ukraine War”Lol, some of the newly mobilized troops are short of toilet paper. Where it matters: tanks, aircraft, artillery shells, missiles and small arms and ammunition- no shortages.”
LOL So even when the Russian regime says there is a weapons shortage, TS refuses to accept this. You see, TS far from being comfortably seated in his armchair is actually based in the Russian-held part of Ukraine now as we speak and is closely involved in carrying out an inventory inspection of weapons there. He has been personally assured by Russian soldiers he has quizzed there that all they lack is good-quality toilet paper
___________________________________“The Russian economy is shrinking
According to independent analysis by the World Bank, International Monetary Fund and The Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD), 2022 will be a bad year for the Russian economy. Gross Domestic Product (GDP) is expected to drop by at least 5.5% in the best scenario to almost 9% in the worst scenario.”Bunk. The Russian economy is doing just fine.”
So in the face of the actual evidence that the Russian economy is not doing fine at all, all our Putin bootlicker can do is robotically assert that the “Russian economy is doing just fine.” Pathetic.
_____________________________________________“Which means approximately 1,000 Russian dead per month up to July which isn’t far off from what the Russians were reporting. Math not your strong suit?”
No, you plonker – I am talking about the total number of deaths to date in this war, not the weekly kill rate (which would obviously change from week to week anyway). The link you cited is out of date and at most would have been up to the end of June. The latest figure is 100K casualties on the Russian side though as ALB points out this includes wounded soldiers too. In terms of actual fatalities on the Russian side, one figure that I have come across is 71200 reported on 1 Nov (so up to the end of October). However, this is a Ukrainian estimate and is likely to be on the high side just as the Russian figure is likely to be on the low side for obvious propaganda reasons. It’s like I said – the exact figure is almost certainly going to be somewhere in between
