Ozymandias
Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
I have just read the 7 page thread entitled "Is there, "Something wrong with the party's case and/or it's methods?" and it has profoundly depressed me. What a laughing stock the SPGB would be should left wingers (or anyone else for that matter) ever read this discourse. My eyes were opened at Summer School in July and when I was there my position was confirmed that I would never rejoin the party…I think the main thing that swung it for me was the way the speaker from Occupy Norwich was handled at Summer School. Frankly I was disgusted by the way this guy was treated. The party really doesn't do itself any favours does it?. The dude was being patronised from the start by members asking questions in the Saturday afternoon session incl an inebriated member who (even though he was pissed with a can of beer in his hand) was later allowed to chair an impossibly obtuse and highly intellectualised evening talk about Shakespeare which would have sent your average worker in the street fleeing in utter boredom. When it came time for a Q&A in the earlier afternnon session, another dissolute party member (a scruffy sort of dishevelled guy…don't know his name) posed a question then just as the Occupy dude was about to answer, the same member just got up and shuffled out of the room them came back in few minutes later then went out of the glass doors into the garden! The Occupy guy didn't know what was going on. To top all of this, at the very end of the night after having sat through that Shakespeare dreck the same poor cunt from Norwich was standing in the garden being ganged up on and lambasted with the case for Socialism by three evangelical members! I mean what kind of impression does this sort of arrogance give off? I say arrogance because most members wouldn't even see any of this as a problem. It would not even occur to them and it didn't that weekend…because in their heads the SPGB is always right no matter what. On top of all this was the homophobic shit that I had to sit through at dinner when another member was spouting out her distaste of the social mores of gay men in South London. Being gay myself I was obviously offended and flabbergated that a party member should be coming out with this shit. Yet despite my protestations the member in question seemed to be totally unconcerned. This really disgusted me."Clinical, critical, often aggressive cynicism." is what "SocialistPunk" stated is the main problem and I could not agree more. I think it is aggression in particular. I saw this at Summer School and also when I watched the video of the recent discussion with TZM in London. This is the problem with humans…it's the old ego that get's in the way every time when things aren't going as planned or hoped for. And things haven't been going anywhere for 108 years and herein lies the rub. I see the Party disappearing in years to come or at least surviving as a relic to be kept alive by a few curators. But it's not really the party's fault either. 108 years of frustration and disappointment coupled with the collosal and increasingly sophisticated Capitalist media/news/entertainment machine turns something like the SPGB into what it is today. This is the main reason behind the fact that the SPGB is wee because it is wee because it is wee etcThis problem also has an element that is much closer to home for me.The ultimate price has been paid by me (again because of this "Clinical, critical and often aggressive cynicism) because 18 months ago I had a massive blowout with my own father who is a 75 year old member. The reason? I dared to make similar criticisms of the party whilst making comparisions to TZM. I was basically disowned by him and that is when the big fall out came. Bearing in mind of course that my old man (like many members I imagine) has never actually read or watched a single piece of TZM material. I digress. I just fear the owning class will win in the end…and I'm talking about the end of history and humanity here because not only is our class hopelessly disorganised and utterly clueless, but the few hundred workers who are organised in WSM are in some ways totally at odds with each other. No wonder TZM decided to totally ditch all of their forums.I think this method of communication is counter-productive in a way because the level of invective I have read today might never happen if members were all together socialising in real life…although from some of the stories I heard over the years from Glasgow branch I wouldn't know so much. All you have to do is read some of the comments pages in newspaper websites or anywhere and eventually you will get folk slagging each other off. Sorry to be so pessimistic but I think we are all fucked. If even the SPGB can't get it together after all this time then humanity is doomed.
Thank you Gnome. Have read everything. V interesting. Esp the article by Adam. God what a goldmine there is in the Standard back catalogue! Cheers Ray
Are there any articles concerning the SPGB stance towards the SLP? I believe the SLP thought that the working class could abolish Capitalism by means of union action. What were the problems the SPGB saw in this position? Cheers Ray
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/sep/24/mitt-romney-self-creation-mythMissed that show last night Adam but just read this article which I thought was pretty good. As usual the comments are mostly good value. The words Capitalism and Socialism being banded about right, left and centre. Not in any way as streamlined as the SPGB or even the Zeitgeist scene but all bubbling under the surface. You wouldn’t have read this mainstream 10 years ago. Cheers Ray
Hi Mike, At summer school in July I mentioned to you that I would like to see a weekend devoted to the issues surrounding human sexuality and relationships in an insane society and what might be prefigured in our imaginations about how human intimacy might work in a sane society. I would also really appreciate a talk about societal attitudes towards same sex attraction both historically and currently through the prism of a purely socialist perspective. I think this would be a great idea for summer school…I mean we all have/or have had sex right? Cheers Ray
Five Minimalist Masterworks… Steve Reich: “Music for a Large Ensemble” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96pj1SkFHsE John Adams: “The Chairman Dances” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Sde2s-tTOI Philip Glass: “Satyagraha” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHKUt5fDbH0 Meredith Monk: “The Dolmen Music” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7su7d76LhWg Terry Riley: ” In C” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjR4QYsa9nE Enjoy! Cheers Ray
Five Minimalist Masterworks… Steve Reich: “Music for a Large Ensemble” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96pj1SkFHsE John Adams: “The Chairman Dances” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Sde2s-tTOI Philip Glass: “Satyagraha” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHKUt5fDbH0 Meredith Monk: “The Dolmen Music” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7su7d76LhWg Terry Riley: ” In C” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjR4QYsa9nE Enjoy! Cheers Ray
Some might say that the inclusion of “Imagine” at the end of the ceremonies is just an example of the “Illuminati” co-opting another working class rallying call…like what happened a few months ago with the image of Karl Marx on a credit card! I watched the whole ceremony (ritual?) last night and I could see signs of occult imagery and symbolism. It was fuckin obvious. I was trying to kid myself on that it was all just co-incidental but I am beginning to think some of this shit is REAL…
When will Sunday’s debate be available to watch online? I can’t see any reference to it on the UK Zeitgeist site. In the past couple of years I have noticed a distinct falling off in TZM activity. I don’t think they are going anywhere. Peter Joseph’s decision to get rid of the global forum (just one example of how undemocratic they are) is central to this. Also the last few times I’ve logged onto the TZM teamspeak site there is nobody there. When I first heard of TZM (by way of SOYMB) I put up a rather hard line post on the Zeitgeist website which led me into a mini online debate with PJ himself. My position towards TZM softened somewhat after this especially after watching “Zeitgeist: Moving Forward” which (except for the last 10 minutes) I thought was mostly excellent. I find that I oscillate between hope and enthusiasm that TZM even exists and despair that they can be so short sighted…especially about concepts of class and history which they ignore completely. I think at the end of the day despite how professional their message is presented, their position is totally half baked. Their story contains gigantic plot holes which only a Socialist can see through. I think in the past I had naively hoped that in some way both TZM and WSM could collaborate in some way. However as long as the Zeitgeister’s believe that Capitalism will eventually collapse and that the next society can be arrived at gradually and with no recourse to political or democratic action then they are about as relevant as the SWP or any other anarchist group. After I rushed into a branch meeting in Glasgow four years ago like a loon to tell the members about this new miracle called Zeitgeist, Vic Vanni prophesised that they could end up doing more harm than good in the end. Maybe he was right.
I was meant to be coming down this morning but I won’t be able to attend tomorrow’s event now. I had booked an early flght for 7am leaving from Glasgow but was still wide awake by 3am and just could not sleep. The thought of getting up at 5am to get the bus to the airport, fly down, get the train from Luton into London, get a tube from London up to North Finchley then get the Bus from there to my mates house was too much for me. The flight only cost me £60 return so haven’t lost that much. Would have loved to have been there but it can’t be helped now!. Cheers Ray
Hello Ed, It just shows you how worried the Capitalist class are by attempting to strangle the release of this documentary, especially in the run up to the latest pet project they are hoping to bamboozle us all with…the fuckin olympics. Ed I agree with you in regard to your sympathy with the rioters. Weren’t these kids only taking back what all of us have produced colectively anyway, even if their actions were subliminally enacted through desperation and blind rage? I wonder how many party members actually went to see Plan B’s excellent movie “ILL Manor’s”? Probably hardly any. I went to see it a few weeks ago and thought it was excellent. I also enjoyed (is that the right word?) the Plan B video you put up. Mate at the end of the day when conditions become so dire and the message of World Socialism/RBE really starts to get out there it is these young people who could be the greatest Socialists. They have the most to gain. I know it sounds ridiculous now to think of all the unemployed chavs, neds (what they are called up here in Glasgow), scallies, pikeys, junkies, alkies, prostitutes, dealers, muggers, house thieves, pick pockets, lager louts, football hooligans, orangemen, EDL supporters and every other lumpen prole all joining in…but they will. They will have no choice. Ok they might be the last section of the class to wake up but when they do we will know about it. At the end of 1984 Orwell wrote that the only hope left was with the proles. It might be a caricature but already the more advanced youth in the thinking section of the working class (i.e the so called middle class?) are leading the way down the dark alley of history armed only with a torch. They are at the heart of occupy and TZM etc (just take a look at the type of folk who are going to be at the Zeitgeist event this coming weekend) and I’m glad they are. All of this will lead to a crescendo…when the defeaning roar will envelop the earth I don’t know, but I see all the jigsaw pieces coming into place. Slowly the stage is being set…for global armaggedon or earthly paradise. I just hope the party will not see the TZM event on Sunday as another opportunity to get bogged down in chauvinism (as unfortunately happened at Summer School with the guy from occupy). If the party fucks this up with TZM then it will be their own fault. The WSM should be engaging with TZM at every opportunity. They can only learn and feed off each other. Cheers Ray
This is why I am flying down to London to attend the TZM/WSM day school on the 22nd. I think it’s fantastic this is happening. Perhaps the WSM should compare notes with Zeitgeist specifically around such topics as videos and other technical stuff. I think the party could learn from TZM (although I’m not talking about theory of course) whilst the Zeitgeisters could learn a vast galaxy from the WSM.
