Bijou Drains
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DJP – Re the Gilmac tape. I had it on cassette in the 80s so I think a cassette version may be out there. L Bird – No old political trick at all.I think you summed up your argument exactly in the quote I gave from your first post, i.e that Marx used the term materialsm to distinguish himself from the idealists. To put it simply "I am therefore I think, as opposed to I think therefore I am". I don't disagree with this point I don't think I've ever met anyone in the SPGB that has disagreed with this point. I fail to see how stating this fails to engage with the issues. I also pointed out that historically the SPGB has not been part of the Leninist trend towards the elevation of "The Dialectic" or "The interpenetration of opposites", etc. to dogma, hence the reference to Gilmac's tape, again is this failing to engage? I think not.The only real gripe that you appear to have is that you have put forward the propostiion that Marx in describing himself as a Materialist should have described himself as an "idealist materialist". Personally I am happy to go along with Marx's own description of himself, call me old fashioed, but I think he was probably the best judge as to how he wanted to describe himslef.You state that I have not engaged with the issues, although that is clearly not true, it does appears that generally speaking people are not in that much disagreement with you. This therefore leads me to examine motive.Psychological Games are not, as you imply, a sign of poor mental health, they are, according to Berne, a sub conscious phenomena in which we all engage as part of our transactional strategies, in an attempt to gain what he described as strokes of recognition. As you are continuing to engage in a thread where no one really disagrees with you, it leads me to the conclusion that you must be sub-consciously be seeking strokes of recognition. The source of these strokes may be as follows:A – Positive strokes from forum members – something along the lines of "wow that's really interesting, I'd never seen Marx in that way" (these don't appear to be on offer at the moment)B – Positive self strokes – Intrapsychic conversation along the lines of "wow, I really pointed out to those lot in the SPGB how well read and clever I am (whether these strokes are available, only you will know)C negative strokes – along the lines of "what the hell is he picking an argument about now, what a complete………" (these types of strokes appear to be very available on the forum.As Berne stated, negative strokes are better than no strokes at all!
Going back to the beginning of this thread, you stated: "Marx used the term ‘material’ as a contrast with ‘ideal’, to contrast human creativity with divine creativity.". I don't think anyone on this forum or anyone in the SPGB would disagree with this. The fact that you choose to call this "idealism-materialism" as opposed to Marx's own descripition of this concept as "materialism" and then choose to bicker with people who choose to continue to describe this concept in the same way that Marx did is, in my humble opiion a littel strange. The fact that you then go on to imply that because tehre are some members who refuse to adhere to your nomenclature this in some way ties the SPGB to the almost religious doctrine faith that many Leninists have in "Dialectical Materialsm" or as it is known to those of the Leninist faith who have reached the upper echelons of mysticism "The dialectic"appears to me to indicate a number of things.1. You have not heard Gilbert McClatchie's excellent talk on Materialism and "the dialectic", which clearly and elequently states the SPGB's position on this (if it is still available it is well worth listening to, it was recorded int helate 60s or early 70s)2. You enjoy playing psychological games with people (I humbly suggest you might like to read Eric Berne's "transational Analysis in Psychotherapy)3. Some of the members of this forum take you more seriously than they should.4. And this is only a suggestion, perhaps you should get out more
Shit! Just checked out the website and apparently Paddy Shannon is the leader, I thought it was still Bobby Gleghorn!On a serious note could we not make a small but relevant statement by just pulling a random member's name out of a hat on the last Friday of every month and then changing the leader's name on their website, or would this have a cost implication?
