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Waht news of our party's glorious ascent to council seats acroos the country?

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alanjjohnstone wrote:

I guess Vin, your attitude is, if it isn't broke why fix it but i'm not sure our propaganda model remains fit for purpose BrianG from Glasgow Br posted this several years back

Quote:

Rather than pay lip service to our open-ness and internal democracy we should advertise it by having a significant discussion section or element, in our main journal, the SocialistStandard. Far from being offputting, this would be attractive to new readers and sympathisers – evidence of a organisation that is alive, and of ideas that are constantly being reviewed and renewed. Why is the Weekly Worker nowadays the most influential paper on the Left? Because it hosts opendebate and discussion. Its not just a party line. But also the role of the Party isn't just to make socialists – it also needs to try and keep them also. And that means keeping members interested, which such adevelopment would help to do.

As it is now agreed to have the print-run continue, let us ask what message it is we wish to convey in the Standard…and that is not as easy as Vin, implies.Any media has a target audience it wishes to reach. I don't think we are any different. When was the last time Standard sellers attended an EDL rally, for instance? Are we intending to poach members from the left-wing? Do we reach out for a "virgin" audience, is it the environmentalists, the internationalists, trade unionists… who exactly do we aim for?We can campaign blindly, after all that is what we do with a lit stall…we contact the public indiscriminately as simply random passer-bys. Is the street stall approach versatile enough to adapt?As i said, now that we decide to go for the print run for the foreseeable future…how do we make it people-friendly? 

I know we have been over this several times before, Alan, but I still don't understnad what the issue is. The Standard loses roughly £500 per year, it is popular with some members and with some members of the general public. At a cost of round about £150 per edition, the recent bequest of £300,000 to the party would keep the standard running for anouther 2000 editions or anouther166 years and 8 months.The only arguments that could possible lead to the closure of the Standard areWe cannot afford to continue doing it – we clearly canThere are not enough members to continue with production – clearly not the case, or it wouldn't be producedthe time and energy of the members producing the standard would be used for other more effective activity if the standard stopped publication – highly unlikely,, there is also a high chance that the closure of the standard would impact on morale to such an extent that it would reduce activty rather than increase it.the money could be put to better use – possibly it could, but as we have a great deal of money, we could produce the standard and use a far larger amount of money elsewhere if there was the need for it.My conclusion is that the whole arguement has been a ludicrous waste of party time and effort. If the movers of he resolution couldn't even bring themselves to support it, surely that speaks volumes.As for the demise of the printed word?https://www.theguardian.com/books/2017/mar/14/ebook-sales-continue-to-fall-nielsen-survey-uk-book-salesPerhaps Private Frazer spoke to soon!

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Bob Andrews wrote:

I don't want to wrong anybody, so I won't go as far as to say that you are a psychiatrist, but some of your postings, in my humble judgement, are of a nature calculated to excite the liveliest suspicions.

Close, but no cigar.

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gnome wrote:

 Members from North East Branch will be present at this eventhttp://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/event/tyne-and-wear-mayday-rally-11amhttps://www.facebook.com/events/1278629588858822/

Two Party members attended the rally (Cdes Kilgallon and Weir) the usual array of leftists and single issue campaigners were present. Socialist Standards were swapped and given away to various stall holders and debate was had with a few. Later another Standard was sold and along with two pamphlets.Members of SPEW (formerly Militiant now outside the Labour Party) and Socialist Appeal (formerly Militant now inside the Labour Party ) were there but were very obviously not on speaking terms. It was a bit like being at a party where the two sides of a particularly acrimonious divorce were present and everyone else found it a "bit awkward". From the atmosphere I would say that Spew obviously got the house and custody of the kids.Following discussion afterwards the two members felt that hiring a stall for the rally next year would be a good move and that further activity in the North East should be encouraged. Watch this space.

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Prakash RP wrote:

 ' Well actually, there is this that Dave B came across: Quote:Humanity, if it wants to be civilised through and through, must make the Principle of healthy and meaningful living its LIFE PRINCIPLEand get rid of all institutions and culture that fail to harmonise with the Principle of Healthy and Meaningful Living. https://hubpages.com/politics/the-RIGHT-VIEW-of-CIVILISATIONt seems to be putting the cart before the horse, i.e taking the idealist position of setting out a set of principles and then saying that society should conform to them. It is also unclear whether these principles are to be applied under capitalism as well as being the supposed basis of future socialist/communist (the same thing) society. Most of things it regards as a sin (eg.bribery, gambling, trafficking, etc) won't arise in socialism as money and the money economy will have disappeared and, also, with the end of the coercive state and the economic dependence of women on men, so will "matrimony" as the state-endorsed living together of a man and a woman. All that will be left are smoking and drinking. So, what's all the fuss about — just a cigarette and a glass of beer. What's wrong with that? ' [ comment by ALB on 27/04/2017 ]    ' t seems to be putting the cart before the horse, i.e taking the idealist position of setting out a set of principles and then saying that society should conform to them. ' You want to aim to achieve your aim after having achieved it ?! My dear friend, the sane aim to achieve their aim AFTER, not before, having fixed on their aim. Playing in a FIXED game is something outright UNBECOMING to true communists, RIGHT ? ' It is also unclear whether these principles are to be applied under capitalism as well as being the supposed basis of future socialist/communist (the same thing) society. Most of things it regards as a sin (eg.bribery, gambling, trafficking, etc) won't arise in socialism as money and the money economy will have disappeared and, also, with the end of the coercive state and the economic dependence of women on men, so will "matrimony" as the state-endorsed living together of a man and a woman. '  The Principle of Healthy and Meaningful Living is meant for the good of humanity, for the transformation of today's humanity into a better humanity, regardless of times it belongs to because it's meant to awaken humanity, and it happens to be the first to do this, to what I view as an eternal truth, namely, the idea that it makes sense, and becomes humanity as well, to live a healthy and meaningful life. It aims at awakening humanity to the fact that capitalism, capitalist cultures and lifestyle, economic inequality, the origin of the GREATEST and gravest social INJUSTICE, etc, etc do NOT fit in with it and the fact that it's communism, and communism alone, that can create a just and free society with an environment that harmonises with the  Principle of Healthy and Meaningful Living. The  Principle of Healthy and Meaningful Living also aims at awakening humanity to the brute fact that it still happens to be way too uncivilised and enlightens it about the dos and don'ts it must adhere to if it wants to be civilised through and through. Thus, the significance of the Principle of Healthy and Meaningful Living in the capitalist era which we all belong to now is undeniable. And you don't seem to mean to deny this undeniable fact. You're skeptic of its usefulness in the communist era. But, sir, as we do NOT belong to the communist era, and as the organisation of the revolutionary transformation of the present-day world into the communist world order happens to be the immediate MISSION before all the communists of today, I think the most sensible thing to do right now would be to spare ourselves the debate over this point. We can leave it to be dealt with by the  humanity who'd belong to the communist era, can't we ? The point over which we started debate is NOT the significance of the  Principle of Healthy and Meaningful Living but the question of whether all those that are so pitiably insignificant as to be bereft of the calibre they need to rid themselves of their nasty addiction to drugs, drinks, smoking, matrimony, etc, i.e. all the stuff that happens NOT to have the Principle of Healthy and Meaningful Living's seal of approval, deserve to be reckoned communist. I think we'd best restrict ourselves to this point.  ' …  just a cigarette and a glass of beer. What's wrong with that? '                                                                         You seem to have agreed to leave the luxury of matrimony off the list of the stuff NOT in disharmony with  the communist ethics and outlook. It's a welcome development. There's NO doubt about it. And as you've succeeded in conquering the allure of silly matrimony as well as travesties of matrimony, there's NO good reason you should NOT be successful at getting rid of your addiction to indulgences such as ' just a cigarette and a glass of beer. ' I endorse looking on ' a cigarette and a glass of beer ' as '  just a cigarette and a glass of beer ' and would like you to give up them right now. My dear friend, you should NOT fail, if you're a true communist, to overcome your unhealthy addictions. If you'd allow me to give you a piece of advice, I'd ask you to say to yourself that communism is a GREAT ideology, and that communists are GREAT people endowed with good sense, strong backbone, and invincible willpower and thus persuade yourself that if you're a true communist, you must prove stronger than the allure of and addiction to all unhealthy indulgences. 

Yeah, thanks for the advice mate, but frankly you seem a bit of a bore and I think I'll stick to the pork pies and beer.You might want to try it, judging from your posts you seem to be a bit stressed and anxious. Take my advice, have your self a nice, long, cool beer, maybe a cigar and a brandy to folow, sit back and relax. Who knows you might stop passing outdated, sanctimonious, moralistic judgements on others . Go on, you know it makes sense, who knows, you might even make a friend or two in the process.By the way, to all the comrades having a drink at lunch time during conference today, I will raise a glass to you.Piss artists of the world unite, you have nothing to lose but your self esteem.

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ALB wrote:

ALB wrote:

This is what happens if you don't send a photo. Mind you, in this case they didn't ask for one though they were sent our manifesto. Scroll down to Guildford West:http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/surrey-county-council-elections-who-12911967

They have now updated this. I did send them the logo saying we'd prefer this to a photo, but they chose the photo (Alan should be pleased it's in colour, though I didn't expect it to be that big):http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/surrey-county-council-elections-who-12911967The statement is based on the Folkestone one and reads (for those who don't want to see the face):

Quote:

“I am standing to raise the issue of the need for the shared and democratic ownership of the Earth’s resources, with all goods and services produced for use, rather than for profit.“The current crisis in social care in Surrey is a pressing example of why this change is necessary. Its root cause is today’s outdated system where finance determines what can, and cannot happen."Socialists suggest a better way. At a time when we can easily feed, house and care for every human on the planet, it no longer makes sense to use money to ration access to what we need, especially not to the needs of the most vulnerable.”"I am standing to make the point that local problems arise from the economic system of production for profit that exists everywhere and that they cannot be solved unless this system is replaced by one based on common ownership and democratic control of the means of production, and access for all to what they need on the basis of 'from each according to their ability, to each according to their needs."

That's great Adam. I've printed a copy off and put it in pride of place on the mantle piece, it'll scare the kids away from the fire.

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rodmanlewis wrote:

Tim Kilgallon wrote:

I think to attempt to catagorise Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder/Attention Deficit Disorder as an invention of the American pharmaceutical industry, is naive. ADD/ADHD is as real and as potentially impactful as conditions such as autism, Asperger's Syndrome or Schizoprenia.

These conditions are to some extent exaggerated because of the nature of class society, where the sufferers react to a hostile world in the only way they know how–by withdrawing from it. Non-sufferers make their lives more bearable by turning to drugs.

I think the idea that people with ADD/ADHD withdraw from society is laughable.

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Dave B wrote:

There is a massive legal pharmacology, get them hooked when young even when still in the womb , opiate based and ‘neural toxin’ anti depressant, Prozac, pill popping Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder in the US.

I think to attempt to catagorise Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder/Attention Deficit Disorder as an invention of the American pharmaceutical industry, is naive. ADD/ADHD is as real and as potentially impactful as conditions such as autism, Asperger's Syndrome or Schizoprenia.

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LBird wrote:

Yes, like Engels, I used to 'hope it will not come to that', but 'there is nothing left for us' Democratic Communists, who insist, like Marx, that only the producers can democratically create their world, 'than to speak out against it publicly'.

Then surely you are proposing that the "truth" is decided upon by an elite, i.e. the producers. what about the non-productive, people with disabilites, those who have retired from productive taks, etc. "democratic communists" exclude them fromt his process?

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alanjjohnstone wrote:

As i have already said, i don't envisage the Lancaster or NLB being passed but this is the beginning of a long debate that will continue and i think we will eventually have a number of options to choose from, and it will never be an either/or resolution. IMHO, we will face also in several years time the question to retain or sell-off either partially or totally our currently under-used but expensive to up-keep HO. Yup, i do tend to have a pessimistic view of the future – But i also like to be proved wrong and be pleasantly surprised, rather than be an eternal optimist and be sorely disappointed.I mentioned previously that our continued activity relies on legacies left to us by deceased members…next time a comrade (particularly the treasurer) is looking you up and down and enquiring about your health, in his or her mind, he'she will be wondering if you have any next-of-kin inheriting your money  If you don't, they'll also be hoping you are leaving behind a house in the stock-broker belt  I do find it a bit disconcerting that my appeal for some facts and figures has so far gone unheeded by the respective committees. I'm sure it is not in the interest of the Party to make decisions based on a dearth of information and only have them available at the last moment for conference attendees.

Hi AlanYou might find this magazine a useful example:http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1887872,00.html

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Prakash RP wrote:

 ' Prakash RP wrote:" [ * The Communist Manifesto ] " Just as an aside. You mention this but neither of its authors adhered to the whole of your "healthy living" principles. Both Marx and Engels drunk alcohol and smoked tobacco. Marx was legally married. Engels was better on this last matter but he went in for fox-hunting. Where they Communists? Or just bad Communists? ' [ comment by ALB on 17/04/2017 ] The point is there's NO good reason why communists should NOT uphold the PRINCIPLE of healthy and meaningful living. …………………………….. The point is there's NOTHING unrealistic NOR anything disagreeable in the PRINCIPLE of healthy and meaningful living. And above all, the PRINCIPLE of healthy and meaningful living has got NO matching rival, and hence there's NO substitute for it, OK ?

There is a good reason form not upholding your silly, dogmatic dictum on how people should live their lives, that is that many people (me included) don't want to.There are, in my opinion, some very disagreeable things about your silly dogma, one it imposes your view as to what is worrtthwhile on everyone else, two it means not having alcohol, which I, in moderation, thoroughly enjoy. If you are saying that I am not a Socialist/Communist because I don't choose to follow your silly dogma, then you have my permission to go and stick your head up a dead bear's arse.

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alanjjohnstone wrote:

Tim, I don't think we can describe the blog as a webzine. It will require a whole new design and reformatting the web-pages plus embedding music and video and increasing the mix of article themes.But a blog the nearest thing we currently have to something that can give a daily voice of the Party, since the media committee seem a bit reluctant to issue press releases.In fact, both blogs published posts on the SPGB's attitude to elections within a matter of an hour or two of May's announcement, whereas we need to await some weeks yet for the Standard's response, (Royal Mail permitting), when it is no longer news-worthy. As they say – old news is no news.And it is indeed worrisome that many members value our blogs so little and remain uninvolved with notable exceptions such as our regular poet and those who submit links of interest to follow up on.  But could this be because the blogs are viewed in some way as the "poor cousins", while an article in the Standard holds greater "prestige", bestowing authors with higher "status" and "esteem", which may well mean that the Standard is draining much-needed energy and channelling resources away from internet projects that have much to offer in potential.So you could draw the controversial conclusion that the print Standard is actually detrimental to putting forward the case for socialism (i wouldn't go as far as believing that but playing Devil's Advocate)But i am confident that with your future participation we can produce a more thought-provoking and stimulating blog which will bring new enthusiasm and a wider audience.The work entailed is no more demanding than posting on this forum. Contact:  spgb.blog@worldsocialism.org  for further detailsThe invitation is also open to anyone else who might be interested.

So effectively, what you are saying is that we should shut down the Standard because writers, members, sympathisers and others prefer the Standard, in the hope that they will start writing and reading the blog, which they don't currently because they prefer writing and reading the Standard.Apart from the fact that there is no evidence that the writing talents of the Standard would be willing to move over to the blog, or that the readership of the Standard would transfer to the blog, isn't that a bit like shooting all of the handsome blokes at the disco, on the off chance that you might finally get asked for a dance.

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Tim Kilgallon wrote:

ALB wrote:

Prakash RP wrote:

By my view of humanity, I don't think humanity is so mean and ungrateful as to deny to me my due recognition and respect for the great service I've done humanity by presenting it with  the PRINCIPLE of healthy and meaningful living, a humble piece of writing by this humble guy, which is meant to acquaint humanity with  the PRINCIPLE of healthy and meaningful living and its significance and thus awaken it to the fact that it becomes humanity, the being superior to all other beings, and it makes sense too, to live a healthy and meaningful life.(…) As I see it, communism will produce new, enlightened, better-quality humanity than its present-day variety, and I'm certain that the new haminity of the future will have the calibre and capability to rise above all sorts of meanness and recognise Prakash RP as the originator of  the PRINCIPLE of healthy and meaningful living that happens to be meant for both varieties of humanity, i.e. all those that are products of capitalism and all those humans communism will produce.

Oh dear. This is really sad. Now you want a statue erected to you in socialism/communism.

They might not build a statue to him, they might name a cocktail after him. In fact I think I am going to do just that tonight, I'm going to invent the Prakash RP cocktail and drink to the health (and meaningful life) of Prakash RP

Ok here we go, I've just invented the Prakash KP meaningful life cocktail.The recipeadd the following ingredients to a cocktail shaker25ml of Chambord raspberry liqueur (fruity to represent the fruitful life)25ml of Frangelico hazelnut liqueur (can't have fruit without nuts)25ml of Irish Whiskey (a life full of spirit is worth living)A dash of Gum syrupa dash of Midori Melon liqueuriceshake the ingredients for about 2 minutesPour over ice into a tall glass and top up with lemonade.stir gently then drink.I'm onto my second and am feeling that life is very meaningful!

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ALB wrote:

Prakash RP wrote:

By my view of humanity, I don't think humanity is so mean and ungrateful as to deny to me my due recognition and respect for the great service I've done humanity by presenting it with  the PRINCIPLE of healthy and meaningful living, a humble piece of writing by this humble guy, which is meant to acquaint humanity with  the PRINCIPLE of healthy and meaningful living and its significance and thus awaken it to the fact that it becomes humanity, the being superior to all other beings, and it makes sense too, to live a healthy and meaningful life.(…) As I see it, communism will produce new, enlightened, better-quality humanity than its present-day variety, and I'm certain that the new haminity of the future will have the calibre and capability to rise above all sorts of meanness and recognise Prakash RP as the originator of  the PRINCIPLE of healthy and meaningful living that happens to be meant for both varieties of humanity, i.e. all those that are products of capitalism and all those humans communism will produce.

Oh dear. This is really sad. Now you want a statue erected to you in socialism/communism.

They might not build a statue to him, they might name a cocktail after him. In fact I think I am going to do just that tonight, I'm going to invent the Prakash RP cocktail and drink to the health (and meaningful life) of Prakash RP

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Prakash RP wrote:

 '  Prakash RP wrote:" I also know there's NOTHING in the theory of communism to suggest there exists any conflict between communism and the PRINCIPLE of healthy and meaningful living. "There isn't really (unless you want to impose them on people). Most of them will be irrelevant in socialism/communism anyway (there'll be no legal "matrimony", women won't be economically dependent on men, no stealing, smuggling, trafficking in women and drugs, gambling, receiving bribes, tax evasion, hoarding black money, etc, etc.). But if you want to live by them, go ahead. Others may well choose a different lifestyle which includes some of things you don't like such as drinking and smoking. That wouldn't be in conflict with socialism/communism either. ' [ comment by ALB on 16/04/2017 ]   It's obvious that ALB does NOT disagree with me over the point that '  there's NOTHING in the theory of communism to suggest there exists any conflict between communism and the PRINCIPLE of healthy and meaningful living. ' Still, he refuses steadfastly to stand for the PRINCIPLE of healthy and meaningful living

Just because there is no conflict it doesn't make it a requirement.there is no conlict between enjoying eating pickled gerkins and communism, that doesn't mean to be a communist you must enjoy pickled gerkins.

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