ALB
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That's not as good, if only because wars are inevitable under capitalism. And will last as long as capitalism does.
Vin wrote:"War is caused by a profit seeking money obsessed economic system." I don't know about you but I agree with him and It is good that workers are responding to that. Just because we didn't say it doesn't make it any less true. Absolutely rediculous to oppose an opinion on the basis of who holds it.I agree and that's a good quote. Have you the details of where and when he said it (so it can be requoted)?
Interesting development and another nail in the coffin of TUSC and its attempt to create a trade-union based, Labour Party Mark 2. The final nail will be when RMT reaffiliates to Labour. OK, there'll still be the Prison Officers Association.I recall hearing Mick Wrack speaking in October 2012. Here's what he said:
Quote:The best speaker was Matt Wrack, General Secretary of the Fire Brigades Union, who said that besides and beyond action to prevent cuts and privatisation there was also a need to win the battle of ideas and convince people that the answer was to reject capitalism and establish socialism. Ok, he didn't define it, but at least he made the point.He probably meant nationalisation or a sanitised version of the old USSR, so not really surprising he's going back to Labour under Corbyn. Pity, though. Trade unions shouldn't be affiliated to any political party (except, perhaps, in the future, to a genuinely socialist onee).
Who takes that position? Not me. I just doubted whether Jeremy Corbyn's election had anything to do with it. Surely you don't think that had something to do with the class struggle?
This US law goes against the opposite principle of "common heritage of mankind" embodied in the 1979 Moon Treaty and the previous Outer Space Treatry:
Article 11 wrote:1. The moon and its natural resources are the common heritage of mankind,
which finds its expression in the provisions of this Agreement and in
particular in paragraph 5 or this article.
2. The moon is not subject to national appropriation by any claim of sovereignty, by means of use or occupation, or by any other means.3. Neither the surface nor the subsurface of the moon, nor any part thereof or natural resources in place, shall become property of any State, international intergovernmental or non-governmental organization, national organization or non-governmental entity or of any natural person.But, then, the USA never signed it. What was envisaged was the "the moon and other celestial bodies" should be owned in common not by mankind but rather by all the States into which the Earth is divided. All the same. "common heritage of mankind" is a concept we can embrace since we think this should apply to the planet Earth too.Actually, paragraph 3 could be adapted to express a legal enactment of world socialism:
Quote:The surface and the subsurface of the Earth, and any part thereof or natural or industrial resources in place, shall cease to be property of any State, international intergovernmental or non-governmental organization, national organization or non-governmental entity or of any natural person.Text of Corbyn's anti-bombing letter to his fellow Labour MPs here:http://labourlist.org/2015/11/full-text-of-jeremy-corbyns-letter-to-labour-mps-about-airstrikes-on-syria/It will be interesting to see how many of them are warmongers.
My brother-in-law was against the Iraq war on the grounds that it would mean more refugees and asylum seekers coming to Britain. I've not spoken to him about the Syria war but I imagine he's against it for the same reason. I think that's UKIP's position too, isn't it?
There's also this in Glosa (don't know how many people speak it though):http://www.worldsocialism.org/glosa/plu-qestio-e-responde-de-socialismo
Jean-Pierre Gorges will have voted against. According to this, he was the only deputy to have voted against the Iraq war.His reasons for voting against bombing Syria are not on general anti-war grounds. He's the mayor of Chartres for the opposition conservatives. His reason seems to be that it wouldn't make things any better and would be a waste of money:https://www.facebook.com/jeanpierregorges/posts/928687167217263
Quote:A quoi bon aller jeter quelques bombes en Syrie ? C’est cher, et cela ne nous protège en rien, bien au contraire, puisque cela diminue l’argent disponible pour le combat intérieur. Et cela provoque les représailles de nos adversairesQuote:What's the point of dropping some bombs in Syria? That's expensive and doesn't protect us at all. Quite the opposite because it reduces the money available for the fight at home. And it provokes reprisals from our adversaries.Mind you, his last point is valid.So, it's down to just 2 against. A bit like the votes in 1914 in the Reichstag on Germany going to war.
I'd say the protests, including (and perhaps especially?) from the Lords and some Tories, would of course had had something to do with it. Doubt, though, if Corbyn's election as Labour Leader would have had.
I suppose we should record that the Tory government has done a U-turn on this, whatever the reason.Another thing Osborne has done is to allow local councils to increase council tax to pay for social care for the elderly — which is precisely what the Green Party in Brighton floated the idea of a local referendum on to get round the central government ban on councils increasing the rates by more than 2%.It seems that even the Tories have come to realise that there are limits to bashing the poor and the vulnerable, if only for fear of losing public support.
Young Master Smeet wrote:They don't appear to have spoke in the debate:The Ecologiste Isabelle Attard has explained her vote on her website/blog headed "For an effective anti-terrorist struggle, I will not sign a blank cheque to the government":
Quote:Je voterai donc contre la poursuite des bombardements en Syrie, dans l’attente d’éléments sérieux démontrant l’avantage de cette solution sur toutes les autres. Ce vote contre ne signifie pas que je défends l’inaction face au terrorisme. Bien au contraire. Je suis pour une lutte anti-terroriste efficace, pour protéger tous les Français de futurs attentats.Rough translation:[
Quote:I will therefore vote against the bombings in Syria while awaiting serious elements demonstrating the advantage of this solution over all others. This vote does not mean that I am defending inaction in the face of terrorism. Quite the opposite. I am for an effective anti-terrorist struggle, to protect all French people from future attacks.The deputies who abstained were members of "Gauche démocrate et républicaine" (Democratic and Republican Left ) which is composed of members of the French Communist Party, of the Left Party and diverse other leftwingers. That makes sense. I wouldn't have expected them (the equivalent of Corbyn and McDonnell here) to have voted for.
Breaking News wrote:France's parliament has voted overwhelmingly to extend airstrikes in Syria, according to the AFP news agency.A prolonged debate had taken place on whether the campaign should be stepped up in the wake of recent terror attacks in Paris.Lawmakers in the National Assembly approved a motion to prolong the operation by 515 votes to four, and 10 people abstained.I wonder who the 4 were and why.
The President seems to have backed down or maybe he's banking on the leftwing parties not being able to get their act together (as does seem difficult):https://uk.news.yahoo.com/portugal-president-meet-socialist-leader-costa-amid-government-102032049.html#T2ie3EtFor any new people looking in on this forum, the Portugese Socialist Party isn't socialist of course. It's only the equivalent of the Labour Party in Britain.
alanjjohnstone wrote:Nor has there been any Western condemnation of the shooting at helpless pilots by "moderate" resistance fighters parachuting from the stricken aircraft which is akin to shooting at life-rafts from a sunk ship – a war-crime. Another double standard of which there are, of course, many more we can cite.And dancing around his body shouting "Allah Akhbar". Very moderate. No wonder most people in Syria are either putting up with the government or getting out of the place.
