alanjjohnstone
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Tony Benn http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/oct/27/tony-benn-labour-ralph-miliband He was never tempted to leave Labour to set up an out-and-out socialist party. "I don't believe in the idea that you can build a new socialist party," he says. "There have been lots of attempts to do it, and they've all failed. There is a radical element, and that element ought to be able to live within the Labour party. Rival organisations under individuals don't survive. Arthur Scargill's party didn't survive." Labour, he says, is at its best when it is a coalition. "That coalition allows in people who in other parts of the world would be expelled from the party. The development of the Stop the War movement [of which he is president] and the campaign against austerity has influenced the thinking of the Labour party, and when that happens it begins to influence the thinking of the public. Those in the party who are now working to build cooperative relationships with single-issue groups are the people to watch. "What happened in 2007-8 is now used by the government as an example of the failure of the Labour party. But the changes that were brought about led to a need to think about something more radical, and more radical ideas – on, for instance, public ownership and education – would win popular support if they were presented to the public." I was not sure whether to laugh or cry as i read this until he concluded "In some ways," he says, "the test of politics is whether your mind is fixed on the future or the past, and I always try to keep my mind fixed on the future." This is our task…and one shared by many others who no longer care about 1917 or 1936 or 1968. Important lessons from our history for sure…but we got to offer confidence and hope…George Sorel's revolutionary myth, if necessary.
We seem to reach a consensus on one particular problem. Like evolution , the party's democracy develops at a glacial speed…unfortunately. It decision making could do with speeding up and the internet and the web may well be the tools. The other issue raised initially of cliques and bias. On some things, i am geographically well out of the loop but again via the internet , i do insist that my views are heard, if they are not always heeded. The Gen Sec, Oliver is very helpful, offering to place my complaints or suggestions from the discussion lists before the monthly EC meetings. Sometimes, my opinions are mistaken because i do not have at hand the full facts. They are more informally known in Clapham High St for various reasons. I rarely apologise since how am i expected to read between the lines on something that's being deliberately made obtuse. However once the full picture is presented privately i usually understand and accept it. This is occasionally the price of transparency and openness, that some "secrets" will still exist. (got that from the conspiracy thread) In regards to the recent decisions to block the re-membership of two ex-comrades, i made my feelings public , long ago. I accepted their regrets for what took place (and acknowledged they were not the only offenders) and that it would not be repeated. That should have been the end of the story and their re-admittance a formality. If bad-mouthing the party and its members after a resignation meant never being re-admitted, i would not be in the party now. I'm not going to throw stones in a glass-house, have one rule for me and another for somebody else, whats good for the goose is good for the gander and all those other cliches sayings.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/27/thailand-racism-unilever-skin-whitening-cream-citra Over the years i have raised the topic of skin-lightening and how lighter-skinned individuals, male and female, are viewed as more attractive and subsequently an industry is built on providing various treatments. Not only Thailand as this article concentrates on but all Asia, Africa, and Americas, even "socialist" Cuba recognises that light skin = success. No doubt this will be put down to the race by some but it is actually class (in India its more caste-based stemming from origins of invaders v indigenous) . Fair skin means no manual outdoor work to be weather beaten by sun, wind and rain – the pale blue-blood aristocrats. It is an attitude that is being kept alive by advertising. All the skin products such as Nivea adverts do get a colour twist added to promote their sale. In the USA we had Black is Beautiful. Today in India we see a similar reaction to a cultural hang-over from our past, – Dark is Beautifulhttp://dawn.com/news/1051765/dark-is-beautiful-movement-takes-on-unfair-india
Lee Harvey Oswald's wedding ring was sold for $108,000 (£67,000). The ring has a tiny hammer and sickle engraved on the inside. http://uk.news.yahoo.com/jfk-assassin-oswalds-ring-sells-108k-042338261.html#rUrOKnM On the morning of the assassination – November 22, 1963 – Oswald put the ring in a cup on the dresser and left $170 (the equivalent of $1,372.46 in 2011 dollars) in one of its drawers before he headed for work at the Texas School Book Depository. He left the house with $15 (over $100 in today's dollars) and had $13.87 in his wallet when apprehended. Was it a farewell gesture from a husband who knew he might never come home again? 3 possible alternatives to mind (I am including both the LN and CT scenarios): – He was going to be killed. – He was going to be caught. – His co-conspirators would take care of his expenses.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24650841 He is also examining whether the push for greater openness and transparency in public life will fuel, rather than kill off, conspiracy theories."It may be that one of the things conspiracy theories feed on as well as silence, is a surfeit of information. And when there is a mass of information out there, it becomes easier for people to find their way through to come to the conclusion they want to come to."Plus, you don't have to be an especial cynic to believe that, in the age of open government, governments will be even more careful to keep secret the things they want to keep secret."The demand for openness always produces, as well as more openness, more secrecy."
My issue if you wish to re-cap on my posts is to do with the present class struggle and also the for socialism and what would hasten that. I insist that class trumps race/xenophobia. My post 9 linked to two stories from labour movements history “The Lanarkshire County Miners’ Union, in the space of some 15 years, went from offering support to miners willing to strike against Lithuanian workers to demanding that Lithuanian miners in Lanarkshire should not be kicked out of the country.” http://www.socialismoryourmoneyback.blogspot.com/2013/08/same-old-labour-party-story.html http://mailstrom.blogspot.com/2007/04/voice-from-aliens.html In Post 49 i said “barriers that distinguish human groups—whether we rightly or wrongly refer to such groupings in terms of race, ethnicity, nationality, political party, etc.—are unquestionably socially-significant, however they are biologically insignificant” In post i provided evidence that capitalist society brings us together and that conflict between groups are overcome through workers solidarity. In post 128 i linked to an article that read “Socialism will give all men economic freedom, equal opportunity to work, and the full product of their labor. Their “social” relations will be free to regulate to suit themselves. Like religion this will be an individual matter and our Elgin Negro-hater can consider himself just as “superior” as he chooses, confine his social attentions exclusively to white folks, and enjoy his leisure time in hunting down the black spectre who is bent on asking his daughter’s hand in marriage.” An article that expresses the free choice of association Hrothgar so often claims to aspire to but of course Debs is now dismissed as a satirist. I accused you in Post 162 of “placing your racial theories in the forefront of your thinking process rather than than trying to achieve a world of mutual co-operation.” In Post i63, i paraphrased Debs that socialism is a society that cannot impose lifestyles and your reply did not satisfy me i was off the mark I’m accused of fuzzy thinking but i have so far been reluctant to discuss my personal experince but you should know that my late wife of 12 years was Asian , we fostered for two years two girls and a boy of Chinese/Pakistani mix. Since 2007 i have been living in Asia and for the last two years with an Asian partner and her two children. In reply to you last post “Property experts now believe that it is wealthy foreign buyers, and their demand for the multi-million pound homes in the capital, that are fuelling a property bubble here. London is becoming more and more attractive to foreign investors and it is the high-end properties that they are most interested in. They view London as a safe haven for their money, especially when many other parts of the world are suffering from economic and political instability.” – http://www.rightmove.co.uk/news/articles/london-property-bubble-created-by-foreign-buyers Assimilation is inevitable. The timetable for immigrant groups to become indistinguishable to the the “native” varies. One of my points was to challenge your 60yrs by describing how the Irish immigration problem still has ramifications even today in Scotland – or have you not heard that the Scottish legal system passed special laws on the singing of pro- and anti- Irish bigoted songs. I used the examples of America to show that the division that is created by the competition for jobs is overcome through class consciousness and not by segregation. Yet again you failed to follow the link i supplied. “Once the Irish secured themselves in those jobs, they made sure blacks were kept out. They realized that as long as they continued to work alongside blacks, they would be considered no different. Later, as Irish became prominent in the labor movement, African Americans were excluded from participation.” No doubt you have seen how Irish came to dominate some cities Tammany Halls and police forces. ..we have the tragic story of how one oppressed “race,” Irish Catholics, learned how to collaborate in the oppression of another “race,” Africans in America, in order to secure their place in the white republic. Becoming white meant losing their greenness, i.e., their Irish cultural heritage and the legacy of oppression and discrimination back home. Imagine if the Irish had remained green after their arrival and formed an alliance with their fellow oppressed co-workers, the free blacks of the North. Imagine if they had chosen to include their black brothers and sisters in the union movement to wage a class battle against the dominant white culture which ruthlessly pitted them against one another.” No worker benefits from job competition, regardless who it is with.”Damn these English coming up to Scotland stealing our jobs “ Damn these teuchters coming down from the glen” “Damn these youngsters willing to work for the minimum wage” “Damn these old codgers not retiring to give us younger folk a chance” “Damn these women working for pin-money” …Should i go on? We want to end this dog-eat-dog society I have asnwered the above…the socialist case is not about loving your neighbour but creating the basis of a society where there is no social conflict, and the first step is to have an economic system that permits that and to achieve that means uniting and putting aside petty differences. I showed it i possible despite the protestations of your fellow-travellers and bed-fellows. Your interpretation of the Roma persecution was indeed fromvery superficial reading…and out of date. She was indeed a blonde haired blue eyed Roma child, willingly given up. I think i referred to the fact of political impotence on the side of the Roma…the Jews have an age old blood libel but lo and behold any media that tried to take one case of child murder by a Jew and make it a case against the whole of Jewry. And just to finish with a comment by the Independent newspaper “The real problem, the unspoken fear, may be that the Roma, if not actively discouraged, could be perfectly capable of integration.” http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/roma–the-unwanted-europeans-8906382.html
Not read the pamphlet " The Revolution Will Be Hilarious" but perhaps it may be of interest to this thread -. Maybe the Library Committee could order it. http://new-compass.net/articles/comedy-and-social-change-brief-interview "…authority figures throughout my life have always felt the need to let me know that I should settle down and learn to take life a little more seriously. I always thought they were wrong. Totally, totally wrong. It seemed not only possible, but actually preferable, to do the things that are important to you, but approach them with a sense of fun and a refusal to take yourself too seriously."Available fom AK Presshttp://www.akpress.org/therevolutionwillbehilarious.html
I believe LBird was violence was directed at myself and was accepted in the humourous spirit it was posted in. i don’t believe LBird has any anger management issues, but if you read his posts on other threads ypou may find his pschological problem is OCD “people will organise themselves on both class and racial/cultural lines and that there is an interaction between the two aspects of identity. ” i think if you ask ant real estate agent for the motive the answer will be property investment potential. it was not my intention to misrepresent you. .. you want to have modish views and impress people with your ’empathy’. If you call for integration, then you are calling for the eradication of indigenous cultures, for the genetic displacement of a unique people, and for people to be generally pushed around. ” Of course its not misrepresentation of my views to impose your own interpretation on them! “but by the end of the nineteenth century they [the Irish]were fully integrated” Not from Scotland , are you? Yes, mostly integrated except in a few towns, but your not aware of the official Church of Scotland propsal to deport the Irish back to Irealnd in the 1930s , are you? http://socialist-courier.blogspot.com/2012/06/give-orange-lodge-their-marching-orders.html?q=church+o+scotland+irish+catholics Q: You point out that at one point the Irish were known as “white Negroes” and black people were referred to as “smoked Irish.” What did those terms reflect?A: They reflected the scorn and disdain with which both were regarded by the better situated, by the leading elements of American society. There was speculation that there would be some “amalgamation,” that is, that Irish and black would blend into each other and become one common people. That didn’t happen; in fact, the opposite happened. How the Irish Became White by Noel Ignatiev Black Irish, a term similar to Bog Irish, used in a derogatory and racist manner. There is also leprecoon and shanty Irish. In America’s class system pecking order that saw some Irish labelled as ‘black’. http://www.pitt.edu/~hirtle/uujec/white.html “Irish and Africans Americans had lots in common and lots of contact during this period; they lived side by side and shared work spaces. In the early years of immigration the poor Irish and blacks were thrown together, very much part of the same class competing for the same jobs. In the census of 1850, the term mulatto appears for the first time due primarily to inter-marriage between Irish and African Americans. The Irish were often referred to as “Negroes turned inside out and Negroes as smoked Irish.” A famous quip of the time attributed to a black man went something like this: “My master is a great tyrant, he treats me like a common Irishman.” Free blacks and Irish were viewed by the Nativists as related, somehow similar, performing the same tasks in society. It was felt that if amalgamation between the races was to happen, it would happen between Irish and blacks. But, ultimately, the Irish made the decision to embrace whiteness, thus becoming part of the system which dominated and oppressed blacks. Although it contradicted their experience back home, it meant freedom here since blackness meant slavery.” i also refer you to a post on the party blog http://www.socialismoryourmoneyback.blogspot.com/2013/10/one-world-one-people.html#more A racist white union leaders’ testimony before the Louisiana state legislature following a 1907 strike:‘I guess before long you’ll call us nigger-lovers, too. Maybe you want to know next how I would like it if my sister married a nigger? I wasn’t always a nigger-lover. I fought in every strike to keep black labour off the dock. I fought until in the white-supremacy strike your white-supremacy governor sent his white-supremacy militia and shot us white-supremacy strikers full of holes. You talk about us conspiring with niggers. But let me tell you and your gang, there was a time when I wouldn’t even work beside a nigger. You made me work with niggers, eat with niggers, sleep with niggers, drink out of the same water bucket with niggers, and finally got me to the point where if one of them blubbers something about more pay, I say, ‘Come on, nigger, let’s go after the white bastards.’”Quoted here During a 1910 strike by the Brotherhood of Timberworkers (BTW), the lumber operators’ association tried to use blacks as strike breakers and baited the BTW for violating the norms of Southern society with its 50 percent black membership‘The BTW takes the Negro and protects him and his family along with the white wage worker and his family on an industrial basis. As far as we, the workers of the South, are concerned, the only “supremacy” and “equality” they [the employers] have ever granted us is the supremacy of misery and the equality of rags … No longer will we allow the Southern oligarchy to divide and weaken us on lines or race, craft, religion, and nationality.’ As always argued by the SPGB, class…not race…It takes the capitalist propagandists and thier useful idiots like yourself to endeavour to thwart workers uniting and keep us divided. Take a look at the Roma thread i posted, while you are at it , how assumptions were so easily made that were turned out false…and how the real problem is submerged by racial stereotyping. http://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/forum/general-discussion/roma
Nope, i am not very bright… Narcissist – Reacts to criticism with anger, exaggerates own importance, fantasies about intelligence, lacks empathy But i do know that the existing segration is mostly not by race but by wealth…in fact more and more gated communities are being created all over the world to keep out the great unwashed. Class not race or ethnicity. The Arab "ghettoisation " of Mayfair, the Russianfication of Belgravia. Without looking back to the posts i think i was specifically referring to integrating migrant labour within the labour movement and the class struggle. That was supported by historical/empirical evidence provided by earlier posts. We have had immigration for a lot more than 60yrs and if we take the example of the Irish it appears to be quite a success. Erm…the Irish used to be called Black Irish, so racism is sometimes that does not actually involve skin colour nor IQs , or genetics – it gets invented.
Dave, apologies if i offended you with my previous remark but all i wished to try to do was point out that trusts = corporatism and we have been down that road already and it failed. Land Taxes too is resurrecting old ideas such as from Henry George. New forms of banking also often simply repeat the case made by Douglas in the 30s. What happens during a crisis is all these solutions are once more proposed as if they are somehow “new” while Marxists are criticised for openly sticking to our “old” analyses. I hope the further you read about ourselves, the more you come to understand the firm foundations we build our socialist case upon. You raise the problem of lazy and idle free-loaders in a future socialist society and suggest that for this reason it may not succeed. It is a question we have for over a hundred years been asked and our answer is little changed and has been in fact reinforced by new research and increasing evidence. Obviously, i can only generalise here about human nature. It is human nature to eat when you are hungry, to drink when you are thirsty, and to sleep when you are tired and to have sex when the urge takes you. Nothing can alter this least of all socialists. However ,what is meant by human nature as an objection to socialism , is not human nature at all, but human behaviour. Human behaviour roots are to be found principally in one’s environment and the economic conditions which influences one’s make-up. How we behave is not “innate” or governed by our “instincts” or our genes, but can and does vary depending on the sort of society we were brought up in and live in. We don’t need to change human nature; it is only human behaviour that needs to change. Socialism does not require us all to become altruists, putting the interests of others above our own. In fact socialism doesn’t require people to be any more altruistic than they are today. We will still be concerned primarily with ourselves, with satisfying our needs, our need to be well considered by others as well as our material and sexual needs. No doubt too, we will want to “possess” personal belongings such as our clothes and other things of personal use, and to feel secure in our physical occupation of the house or flat we live in, but this will be just that – our home and not a financial asset. Such “selfish” behaviour will still exist in socialism but the acquisitiveness encouraged by capitalism will no longer exist. The coming of socialism will not require great changes in the way we behave, essentially only the accentuation of some of the behaviours which people exhibit today (friendliness, helpfulness, co-operation) at the expense of others which capitalism encourages. Humans behave differently depending upon the conditions that they live in. Human behaviour reflects society. In a society such as capitalism, people’s needs are not met and any reasonable person feels insecure so people tend to acquire and hoard goods because possession provides some security. People have a tendency to distrust others because the world is organised in a dog-eat-dog manner. If people didn’t work society would obviously fall apart. To establish socialism the vast majority must consciously decide that they want socialism and that they are prepared to work in socialist society. If people want too much? In a socialist society “too much” can only mean “more than is sustainably produced.” For socialism to be established the productive potential of society must have been developed to the point where, generally speaking, we can produce enough for all. This is not now a problem as we have long since reached this point. However, this does require that we appreciate what is meant by “enough” and that we do not project on to socialism the insatiable consumerism of capitalism. Under capitalism, there is a very large industry devoted to creating needs. Capitalism requires consumption, whether it improves our lives or not, and drives us to consume up to, and past, our ability to pay for that consumption. In a system of capitalist competition, there is a built-in tendency to stimulate demand to a maximum extent. Firms, for example, need to persuade customers to buy their products or they go out of business. They would not otherwise spend the vast amounts they do spend on advertising. There is also in capitalist society a tendency for individuals to seek to validate their sense of worth through the accumulation of possessions. The prevailing ideas of society are those of its ruling class so then we can understand why, when the wealth of that class so preoccupies the minds of its members, such a notion of status should be so deep-rooted. It is this which helps to underpin the myth of infinite demand. It does not matter how modest one’s real needs may be or how easily they may be met; capitalism’s “consumer culture” leads one to want more than one may materially need since what the individual desires is to enhance his or her status within this hierarchal culture of consumerism and this is dependent upon acquiring more than others have got. But since others desire the same thing, the economic inequality inherent in a system of competitive capitalism must inevitably generate a pervasive sense of relative deprivation. What this amounts to is a kind of institutionalised envy and that will be unsustainable as more peoples are drawn into alienated capitalism. In socialism, status based upon the material wealth at one’s command, would be a meaningless concept. The notion of status based upon the conspicuous consumption of wealth would be devoid of meaning because individuals would stand in equal relation to the means of production and have free access to the resultant goods and services . Why take more than you need when you can freely take what you need? In socialism the only way in which individuals can command the esteem of others is through their contribution to society, and the stronger the movement for socialism grows the more will it subvert the prevailing capitalist ethos, in general, and its anachronistic notion of status, in particular. We already as a society support “free-loaders”, the young the old, the infirm, the unemployed, even the artist. Can socialism exist if some able-bodied take and not give? I suggest it can and over time the problem will diminish. It is not an argument to oppose socialism.
The fight for the Brand http://www.scriptonitedaily.com/2013/10/25/russell-brand-to-become-the-face-of-none-of-the-above-campaign-in-2015-general-election/ Basically, i feel the same sympathetic argument is being made in support of Brand as with the Occupy Movement. They both have made the subject of revolution popular in the media, returned it to the public domain, once again made it a respectable topic for the over the dining table. If we are to jump on the band-wagon we should be clear on what points it is to be and what direction we should steer the discourse. Fact is we have already lost this one particular piece of propaganda prize and missed the boat. It has indeed gone viral as Imposs says , and our independent voice simply isn't vocal or loud enough to draw attention to ourselves…no more spilt milk, water under bridges etc etc . Lets move on to some practical proposals of propaganda. Nor do i think we should be in the business of searching for celebrity endorsement, no matter how appealing.
So "the blonde angel's" real parents have been found – another Roma family. No kidnap – no abduction, just a fairly common informal adoption and lo and behold – fair skinned blonde haired blue eyed Roma exist in the world. No lead headline story of the outcome. Well the authorities never give up and vindictively still prosecuting both families on lesser charges of illegal adoption. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24673804 Will the press now apologise for their racist assumptions and the repeat of age-old slurs against the Roma. I doubt it . They can also apologise while at it to all those tragic families who have lost children and were given false hope that they "could have been taken by the gypsies". There is no doubt that there exists a baby selling trafficking industry, particularly in the Third World, but it is centred upon the innumerable official and semi-official orphanages and involves childless Westerners buying a child.
