alanjjohnstone
Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Doesn't he need to be sworn in before i have to call him Councillor Colborn, ALB. ..Or is he at the moment Councillor-elect Colborn. But as i said in my post, there appears to be a certain amount of deceit conducted by Clr-elect Colborn in not disclosing his intentions and that raises the whole issue of how much respect is deserving.
What i have is a problem of expecting everyone to know everything, LBird, and not respecting the knowledge acquired by others after much study and experience. Simple as that.I know you dislike Engels but he does raise the authority of the ship's captain, and Marx talks of the orchestra's conductor. We do bow down to superior understanding or would you put yourself into the hands of an untrained novice when it comes to dentistry. What i am extending this too, is that membership of the associations and there are many levels of expertise, is selected by their peers, not the general public, not even the patients, but only by those who are qualified to judge his or her competence in different aspects of dentistry. I think it is called delegatory democracy, rather than direct democracy and this is how we make global decisions without the necessity of individual votes by billions but as it does not involve a profession called politicians by those selected by a variety of mechanisms from the factory floor to the city economic forum to the regional resource centres…etc etc I accept that we will know our own limitations in personal fields, but when it comes to the wider social and environmental questions, just how are conflicts of sectional, self-interests resolved when i am not an expert who has studied , say hydrology and have no idea on the effect of fracking on groundwater leaching. My only skill is weighing up conflicting scientific opinion to reach a conclusion. Will it be by voting and if so, my earlier question remains…who determines the constituency and who determines the competency of those involved in the decision-making.As i have said,i believe such issues will continue to be asked when a new society has been achieved, as such matters will still be in flux and still be evolving. I'm laying down no imperative democratic procedures, but very much basically saying when it comes to some issues, there can be no "right" of participation in every decision making process.
Quote:you need to be clear about the grounds on which you are expelling him.Rule 6 is quite sufficient and very clear for his branch to proceed to expel him, Robbo. We need not engage in any complicated debate or discussion about the nature of reformism or reforms.
Quote:6. A member shall not belong to any other political organisation or write or speak for any other political party except in opposition, or otherwise assist any other political party.He stood on behalf of the Seaham Community Party, which is registered as a political party by the electoral commission.What is more that he felt the need to do so without resigning and underhandedly maintaining it a secret from the Party. I ask myself, would we have ever heard of his candidature if he had failed to be elected? In fact, would we have ever known if Vin did not have the decency to relay the information to us al?. But i do have to now ask Vin and Linda, directly, when were they aware of this development. The question is unavoidable, i'm afraid, considering their close family ties with ex-comrade Colborn. BTW, i do find it difficult not to say ex-comrade, as his actions count louder than any words he may have in mitigation.
A good effort put in by the EH comrades.
Quote:a former Labour councillor who occasionally has attended our branchCan i ask who he is and what is his current view of the Party?
I suppose Brian, in the same way as a patient signs a consent form before undergoing surgery. Voting legitimises the qualification and, in a way, the authority of the surgeon.
The consent form is not the cure-all, of course. Democracy does entail a bit more responsibility and commitment. A patient has the surgical procedure explained, and perhaps he has sought a second opinion, but also done his or her own investigation into the details. I mention success rates because i believe these are available on request now but.
I touched on this in my earlier post. Would workers’ democracy exclude the ignorant and uninformed, or do they have the same equa right of involvement in decision-making? Our own organisation has chosen that we will not permit membership based on any right to join but only on proof of relevant knowledge conducted by his or her peers – fellow-workers. Is this principle of value expanding to wider administrative areas?
Robbo, you may be interested in this thread i began and the question of whether the placement of bins and park benches were reformist or not…i think the answer that while they were not revolutionary demands, they were not reformisthttp://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/forum/general-discussion/parish-councilsHowever, i concur with Tim that ex-comrade Colborn should hang his head in shame for his new political party has support for the British Legion, a dubious charity, and recommends the improvement of Armed Forces Day,a celebration of militarism.Unlike Vin's breaking news, no SPGBer was elected in Seaham. The Party did not stand and the candidate did not do so on the platform of socialism. His participation can be likened to the Trotskyist entryist with no regard to his voters for as the Manifesto states, a communist disdains from concealing their views and aims.I think ex-comrade Colborn disgraced himself personally by not resigning in advance and now leaves the Party with the unpleasant and time-consuming task of expelling him.Another of my concerns is if there were members locally who knew of ex-comrade Colborn's candidacy and failed to inform the NERB branch or the Party of it. I would consider that a breach of Rule 6 as well "… or otherwise assist any other political party."
If this is Steve Colborn who thought was still a member of the party i am puzzled.I believe he is still a member and if he is then this is a very serious matter and openly flouting of the party rules, that can only lead to expulsion.6. A member shall not belong to any other political organisation or write or speak for any other political party except in opposition, or otherwise assist any other political party.So who are the Seaham Community Party that he now represents?If this is Cde. Colborn and he is still a member of NERB then the following rules pertain 27. Candidates elected to a Political office shall be pledged to act on the instructions of their Branches locally28. Any Branch proposing to contest elections, National, European or Local, shall first obtain permission from the Executive Committee. I hope it is just someone sharing the same name for i woud hate our first elected member to be disowned by the Party.
Quote:There are no needs, interests or purposes that are not amenable to democratic controls. To argue otherwise, is to sanction an elite within social production.This i can agree with but what my point was, is how are these controls determined and applied? It seems to be the dilemma on the exchanges between you and others here. I'm prepared to let the solutions arise as the problems arise and i don't expect it always to be without failings or flaws in the procedures. Take the flow of a river, for instance. We already have disputes about dams in one country affecting the irrigation in another. I could vote for a dam so as to ensure no flooding in my region, but do i have the right to vote to limit irrigation of farms in another. Designing parameters to democratic participation is essential. I get your point on electing technocrats but who elects them and who elected them to present actual solutions and alternatives to conflicting practices. I have no knowledge of medicine or pharmaceutical processes…do i get a vote on choosing whether A or B is best suited for an oversight committee? Or do i leave that up to those involved in the industry, able to comment on receptive qualities and qualifications in drug-production. Do i permit someone unversed in brain surgery to decide on procedures that only medical and only a very limited numbers are skilled and experienced to judge on competence? Even simple survival rates data is no gauge of accuracy. Do we not rely on Peer-Review and not general voting when a scientific paper is presented? It has been raised before…division of labour which applies to all aspects of production. I'm prepared to let the future pan out, confident that something fit for purpose, perhaps by trial and error, and by no means, necessarily universal, will spring up…necessity the mother of invention and all that …
The issue of decision-making is an intriguing one. Robbo's local sewage plant may well be opposed by NIMBY localists against the proposals of LBird's bugbears, the technocrat elitists who have all manner of environmental reasons for the location's benefits.How will such dilemmas be resolved in socialism…by voting …but at what level…who is included in the debate and the who is entitled to vote? Anyone or only those proven to have studied the subject (after all we have a criteria for legitimising being in the Party) Certainly not the world as Robbo says, but where does his constituency begin and end? The folk downwind of the sewage stink? (okay, i know we have technology to contain detrimental impacts but for sake of argument, we don't) versus those upwind?Should we stop those on the other side of the planet from voicing an opinion? Am i excluded from a vote on the DAPL even though i'm not living on a native American reservation or an inhabitant of Bismarck but hold strong views on pipelines. What authority will exclude me if it is an online vote? The URL Controllers?Is there really any point in going into details because as one early mentor told me "socialism is the science of generalisations", and so is specifics at this moment very irrelevant.
Quote:Total sent through post: 911 (previous year 925)Report on activities in the year 2015: We produced 1200 copies each month of the Socialist Standard. The printing cost was £871 an issue, or £10,440 for the year. Postage is in addition and is particularly onerous for copies sent overseas. The 1200 copies a month are distributed as follows: Inland subscribers: 366 Inland bulk (branches): 219 Inland free (libraries, exchanges) 145 TOTAL INLAND: 730 Overseas subscribers: 73 (Europe 25, Rest of World 48) Overseas bulk (including Companion Parties): 87 Overseas singles (free): 72 TOTAL OVERSEAS:232 GRAND TOTAL: 962 In addition, 20 or so a month are sold directly to people visiting Head Office; 50 or so sent out by the Enquiries Committee in response to those who request a free 3 month trial subscription; and 30 kept back for binding and as back issues. So, we tend to have a 100 or so of each issue left over each month. Healthier than i thought with 366 subscribers even taking off an indeterminable number that are isolated members unable to obtain copies from a branch.But we should have a figure for how many of the 219 issues are sold to non-members by the branches. HO has left-overs of a 100, the branches also have unsold copies. The figure is out there in some branch report to conference but i cannot trace it.
And i have asked for certain details JDW.You say we only lose 500 pounds. I am guessing that figure is what i have called Peter paying Paul – a cross-subsidy from other elements of the party…branches and members and that takes money from other ventures that branches could engage in …local ads in local papers, for instance. How much comes from non-member subscriptions? I recall an old Glasgow branch meeting where VV suggests members buy their copy from Barretts to ensure they continue to stock. So even retail outlets cannot be clear cut figureIf that bequest was only used for only the Standard you are perhaps right, but tell me just how much will be spent on the premises upkeep. Once again i remind those on this thread, that i try not to isolate our problems into little boxes. We have a much wider financial drain to address.I am of mixed opinion that the Standard is a drain on members time and energy. One evening for despatch seems to be the main labour. The number of contributors to each issue is rather limited to the space permitted and one reason i favour an e-zine, we will not be discouraging submissions on the account of space. We can include a weekly poetry corner on the blog, something the Standard is reticent to do on a monthly basis.Again we can to and fro over market trends JDW, there is a general downward trend on print magazines due to fall in revenue from advertising which they survive upon and which is migrating to social media and the web. But i would rather have the stats on left-wing political magazines…is the bulk of readership print or digital…is the print bread and butter or vanity publishing and is the digital, the bread and butter or vanity? Those are the questions
Sorry for misinterpreting this "So we don't need to change what we say"I would add the caveat that we do need to change HOW we say it.But please identify what needs to be fixed and how it should be fixed, Vin. We do need to discuss those
I guess Vin, your attitude is, if it isn't broke why fix it but i'm not sure our propaganda model remains fit for purpose BrianG from Glasgow Br posted this several years back
Quote:Rather than pay lip service to our open-ness and internal democracy we should advertise it by having a significant discussion section or element, in our main journal, the SocialistStandard. Far from being offputting, this would be attractive to new readers and sympathisers – evidence of a organisation that is alive, and of ideas that are constantly being reviewed and renewed. Why is the Weekly Worker nowadays the most influential paper on the Left? Because it hosts opendebate and discussion. Its not just a party line. But also the role of the Party isn't just to make socialists – it also needs to try and keep them also. And that means keeping members interested, which such adevelopment would help to do.As it is now agreed to have the print-run continue, let us ask what message it is we wish to convey in the Standard…and that is not as easy as Vin, implies.Any media has a target audience it wishes to reach. I don't think we are any different. When was the last time Standard sellers attended an EDL rally, for instance? Are we intending to poach members from the left-wing? Do we reach out for a "virgin" audience, is it the environmentalists, the internationalists, trade unionists… who exactly do we aim for?We can campaign blindly, after all that is what we do with a lit stall…we contact the public indiscriminately as simply random passer-bys. Is the street stall approach versatile enough to adapt?As i said, now that we decide to go for the print run for the foreseeable future…how do we make it people-friendly?
Quote:I'll try and persuade my branch to bring that to conference next year.As i have said previously, this question is not going away and one thing we should do is collate the necessary information to and contrary to the opinion of some, all the data has not been made available.Another type of organisation would set up a working group to study the issue and come up with an array of options to be discussed and debated. Unlike YMS "optimism" or next conference, i think this will be something we will spend a number of years on before it is resolved to everybody's satisfaction, my fear is that we will miss the bus. But as they say, another bus will be along…probably in time to coordinate with the dissolution of branches into a national structured organisation where we are in effect all Central Br. members…and that, of course, raises a whole lot of questions on how we make decisions and debate among ourselves.But the downside in all this internal discussion is that we spend time in an incestuous relationship with fellow members rather than devoting our energy in advocating socialism and implementing policies to recruit new members to reverse our decline. Finding solutions become our problem, in other words.
