alanjjohnstone
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Israel is set to inform thousands of Africans who entered the country illegally that they have three months to leave or face indefinite imprisonment. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/02/israel-to-tell-african-migrants-leave-or-face-indefinite-imprisonment
Quote:as Robbo has pointed out, it is difficult to imagine a countryside without animals and making use of them.Actually not so long ago it was quite easy to imagine when the UK was rife with foot and mouth. The 2001 epidemic triggered a livestock culling campaign that involved the slaughter of more than 6.5 million animals and it basically suspended cattle and sheep farming in the UK. Some environmentalists suggested it presented an opportunity to address ecological concerns. They argued that removal of sheep from the uplands presented an opportunity for the land to regenerate itself in terms of biodiversity. In the absence of grazing, and if the vegetation remains unchecked, succession will take place. More and more species of flora will establish, in turn supporting more species of fauna. The land, therefore, becomes progressively wilder, similar to that prior to human interference, hence the term "re-wilding". In this way, the land is no longer used for food production, but is used for the conservation of wildlife. By means of tourism or recreation etc., it is proposed the land could generate far more funds, and prove more economical than livestock farming on the same land.Mark Avery director of conservation for the RSPB at the time suggested that this opportunity for the conservation of biodiversity was the "silver lining" in the foot and mouth crisis. Moreover, re-wilding would be in accordance with the Rio Earth Summit 1992, and many EC Directives, which, in both cases encourage the conservation of biodiversity.But this article might be relevant in that it presents a sustainable mixed veg/meat diethttp://www.thelandmagazine.org.uk/articles/can-britain-feed-itself
Quote:organic livestock agriculture becomes more efficient and sustainable when it is carried out in conjunction with other traditional and permacultural management practices which are integral to a natural fertility cycle. These include: feeding livestock upon food wastes and residues; returning human sewage to productive land; dispersal of animals on mixed farms and smallholdings, rather than concentration in large farms; local slaughter and food distribution; managing animals to ensure optimum recuperation of manure; and selecting and managing livestock, especially dairy cows, to be nitrogen providers rather than nitrogen stealers.This recent report questions the benefits of a fully vegan diet.https://www.foodnavigator-usa.com/Article/2017/11/30/Eliminating-animal-based-food-production-isn-t-panacea-for-health
I note that the environmental argument against livestock production is not being addressed. Just as it was not even touched upon in the Paris COP21 talks. Food and Agriculture Organization estimates that 18 percent of annual worldwide GHG emissions are attributable to cattle, buffalo, sheep, goats, camels, pigs, and poultry but other more recent analysis finds that livestock and their byproducts actually account 51 percent of annual worldwide GHG emissions. Worse than energy and worse than transportation. Nor should the pollution side-effects of pig slurry and chicken shit be ignored. But as Marx said of London shit, it could be transformed into an asset as fertiliser manure with socialism. Are members of this party claiming that we should not as a socialist society not tackle this threat to people's well-being and the planet's health?I think we don't quite take on board that to fix our eco-systems involves changes in consumption patterns across a wide variety of goods and products. I think it is agreed that meat-eating will continue and that there will not be authoritarian attempts to stamp it out but i believe increased campaigns such as what we have now from those working in health and safety who are already exercising influence to reduce the damaging effects of our diet will be upped considerably. In socialism, there will not be a very effective lobby from vested interests to counter-act such information but a balanced view put forward about what a balanced diet entails. And what we offer our kids to eat will be more than just the responsibility of parents. When they are no longer exposed to insidious advertising techniques, demand will begin to diminish and dwindle. Regards John Oswald's concern on the animal welfare, there will not be any imposed censorship and the media will be given full access to the conditions of animal rearing and the manner in which they are slaughtered. As i said some members believe animal husbandry and the method of killing can be humanely done. I have my own doubts about that but full transparency will eventually determine if it is possible.I think we can underplay just what great changes will take place with the implementation of a rationally planned society. Preferred brands in needless competition with others will disappear generic versions – of the best quality – will appear.Socialism is about diversity and what people eat will be according to local custom and tradition and culture as Robbo .suggested. What i think will not exist is the globalisation of particular cuisines – if you can call KFC and McDonalds cuisine. For sure we all benefit from a certain amount of transfer of culinary delights…from Italy we got the pizza, from India curries…and so on …and so on Greggs sausage rolls, if it remained a parochial NE "delicacy", would be no problem but like all capitalist enterprises it hopes to put out of business all other regional bakeries and capture the market. Try a Stephens steak bridie if you want a really tasty pastie. We must also address the way we grow our food. But let me once more state that some degree of meat eating will carry on but nothing like the current rate of meat consumption. That organic farming will not entirely displace industrial farming's reliance on artificial fertiliser and pesticides but agroecology will increase and monoculture decrease. Localism will become more popular…older members remember the days of local dairies…but for some foods it is more ecologically sound to transport from other regions especially if all-year round supply is sought rather than seasonal.Some members have stuck it head into sand by declaring that there will not be a widespread change in lifestyle attitudes but contradictorily say there will be changes in behaviour when it comes to why there will be voluntary labour and self-imposed limits to accessing goods and services. It will take time but same as crime, religion, racism, sexism xenophobia and many other negative traits meat-eating and animal cruelty will die out and will no longer receive public acceptance. And those who insist socialism is about personal individual freedom should note the Party declared HO a no-smoking zone. It doesn't require policemen to impose that rule against addicted tobacco users…just reasonable adherence to democratic decision-making of the party by smokers.I also recall at conferences i attended there was no meat on the menu, no sausage rolls or meat pies. But we did after conference go to local restaurants for our lamb curries and pepperoni pizzas
Vin, socialism is not freedom to do whatever you want – that is anarcho-individualism.The damage to the planet may have been caused by capitalism drive to maximise profit, but we have the effects and consequence of climate change inside a socialist world which we require to remedy and reverse. That sausage roll is a product of social production and therefore there may well be other members of society who will deign to participate in its production. Greggs sells around 2.5 million sausage rolls per week or around 140 million per year, 1600 outlets, 20,000 workers. I suggest socialism will find better use of those resources.On the other hand since it contains less than a fifth of pork and its pasties just a third of beef, Greggs might be thought of as sustainable.I have already referred to those who have to slaughter and butcher animals.You may hold the view that it is desirable work and that many will continue working at it. Or that even though it is unpleasant, the job can be rotated and made more humane. I cannot imagine that possibility, certainly not if the present scale of demand has to be maintained.The fact that poverty in this present time forces people mostly migrant labour to take that type of job makes me think that not many will offer themselves up for it. I lived close to a meat processing plant, and despite high local unemployment, when you passed by at finishing time, it was only Eastern European languages you heard from the workers leaving the factory. In Germany it is the same…Romanians and BulgariansA few specialised abattoirs may remain for providing meat as a luxury for special occasional feasts or will be as Robbo suggests, very localised due to geography and perhaps tradition, but global or even widespread consumer demand simply will not be met, imho. There will simply be other priorities to address once we get socialism ALB posted on India's meat eating Beef and overall meat consumption has fallen by 15 percent across France between 2003 and 2010 so obviously the meat industry began a campaign to increase consumption. Although on a global scale, UK meat consumption is relatively high, it is in a steady and consistent decline. https://www.vivahealth.org.uk/resources/meat-truth/uk-meat-consumption-%E2%80%93-going-down-online
We would be even sillier as a political party if we did not acknowledge the threat of global warming and the contribution that livestock farming has on it. And agriculture monoculture too is an environmental threat so even arable farming will have to adapt.I think the two farming articles in the current issue of the Standard is a healthy expression of the need to explain or attitude to the environment. No doubt we may have members who object on the grounds of job-losses to the aim of reducing CO2 in the atmosphere by curtailing coal power and other fossil fuels and object to the leave the coal in the hole and the oil in the soil campaigners. But if members accept that such a step is necessary to halt and reverse climate change, we have to concede similar actions must apply to other aspects of capitalist production that add greenhouse gases to the air.I can understand some comrades who advocate vegetarianism or veganism on animal welfare grounds but the extract i posted addressed that concern.But i emphasise that the primary reason to actually actively discourage meat-eating is environmental. But perhaps you are right that chicken or other fowl could substitute for beef and pork. And what Jamie Oliver called pink slime is the way to go. Brasil is trialling something similar – farinata. And, of course, beetles and grubs can become a bigger part of animal feed and even on our own plates.As for fish, we have a serious problem with over-fishing. I recall the fish and chip shop directly opposite HO boasted it sold only fish from sustainable sources…(but i was shocked by the exorbitant price)2.7 trillion fish are caught, of which they keep only one fifth, and throw back four-fifths. Big fish are now at 10% of 1970 levels. So even fish will require to be protected (rationed) much more than presently.For the record, i'm not a vegan, nor a vegetarian, and i over-pamper my 2 dogs and 5 cats.I don't think, Vin, anybody is proposing people are forced to accept compulsory diets. But communities will be free to choose what is made available for the well-being of its members and eco-system. And the advertising and promotion of unhealthy diets will cease and people gradually weaned off food addictions…So indeed say an eventual goodbye to your Gregg's sausage roll.
It is to be expected that Socialist Courier, the blog of our Edinburgh and Glasgow branches, would have posted about Scotland's poet. https://socialist-courier.blogspot.com/2016/01/burns-night.htmlhttps://socialist-courier.blogspot.com/2013/01/burns-night.htmlBut let us not forget other 'peoples poets' such as Fife miner Joe Corriehttps://socialist-courier.blogspot.com/2012/12/joe-corrie-rebel-poems.html
Due to space constraints, the article failed to mention in response to the First Intifada and reduce its reliance on Palestinian workers Israel has a policy of importing migrant workers, a population of 300,000 foreign workers, mostly from Thailand and the Philippines but also from Eastern Europe and more recently, construction workers from China.Regulations to discourage migrant workers laying down roots in Israel are especially stringent. Female guest workers who give birth in Israel, once her residence permit expires, have to leave the country and return without the child if she wanted to extend her permit stay and if the father is a foreign citizen, either she or he is obliged to leave Israel. Regulations for employing foreign workers explicitly state that such workers will not be allowed to enter Israel or cannot remain working in Israel if they have a parent, sibling or child living in the country.Human Rights Watch in a 2015 report documented low pay, excessive working hours, hazardous working conditions, and poor housing for some of Israel’s Thai agricultural workers – and employer retribution if they try to protest by going on strike. HRW found that the abuses the workers result from weak enforcement of Israel’s labour laws, which on paper afford migrant workers extensive protection. Various factors, however, undermine the effectiveness of the legal framework. These include a division of regulatory responsibilities, an ineffective inspection regime, apparently insufficiently resourced enforcement units, and a failure to impose meaningful sanctions on employers and manpower agents who break the law.
More on the 1854 Labour Parliament herehttps://socialismoryourmoneyback.blogspot.com/2013/06/the-1854-labour-parliament.html
What's the statistic and what's the popular myth, ALB?I think i have previously mentioned the high rate of vegetarianism of India. No-one ever claimed it was a 100% or that meat eating was not increasingThe figure of 3% consumption rate and the USA's 95% seems consistent with what has previously been argued. In Kerala because of the high proportion of Muslims and Christians not seen in other parts of India, there is a higher rate of flesh consumption. I found pork almost impossible to buy. Beef was available but not in many outlets and goat (called mutton locally) was the common substitute. i had no difficulty in acquiring fresh milk or eggs. Chicken was widespread as was fish which is not surprising for a coastal state. The eastern coastal states also seem to be the bigger flesh eaters.I don't think it is to do with the high income of the average Keralan and the increase meat consumption. Perhaps the fact they also have the highest rate of workers going abroad to other countries is also a contributing factor.But in the South because of the Jain legacy, there are numerous what are called "pure vegetarian" restaurants – places where the kitchen cannot be used for meat cooking.In other regions there is also a caste conflict going on – the Hindutva cow-protectors v the Dalits which is centred often on diet (but more a pretext)I think the chickenisation is reflected globally and it is not just down to KFC although where i stay now, there seems to be an explosion of KFC outlets (but also pizzas). It seems to be the Gates Foundation solution to hunger…by a chickenBut regards the argument i sometimes put forward, the closing conclusion seems to support it.
Quote:While the trend towards non-vegetarianism is increasing, vegetarians are certainly more benign to the planet’s environmental healthI think we underplay the fact that while production in socialism will be addressed by changes in lifestyles and behaviour, consumption patterns too will change dramatically. Just as relationships between people will accentuate the positive qualities of behaviour, the way we view animal treatment will also change. They will no longer be seen in commodity values only. Somethig i also indicated on my personal blog on pets and the pet-market.https://mailstrom.blogspot.com/2017/09/pet-profits.htmlIf you want to continue to eat flesh, i think you will be required to raise the animal yourself and carry out the slaughtering yourself, simply because i see no volunteers arising to work in the abattoirs. It is no wonder that even today the food-processing industry is one that faces the serious problem of recruitment and need to import workers from abroad (Germany has the same problem) George Orwell, commented: “Men exploit animals in much the same way as the rich exploit the proletariat”But my personal views have not encroached on the blog SOYMB putting forward the Party position
Quote:What will become of the meat and dairy industry in socialism? At present the socialist case focuses necessarily on the emancipation of the human species from capitalist-induced oppression and suffering, while the ethical question of how we should regard and treat animals remains as one of the iceberg of other issues submerged below the waterline. It is perfectly possible that a Socialist society will involve less eating of meat and eggs, and any animals kept for food purposes will certainly be treated as humanely as possible. If socialists expect a large-scale meat industry they will have to face the fact that there is no compassionate "ethical" way to do this. But it is all very well to talk about opposing all hierarchy, including that of humans over animals, but if it came to the crunch we suspect almost everyone would regard the life of a fellow human as more important than that of a non-human animal. So there can be no real equality of treatment between humans and animals.As stated above, the Socialist Party does not have a position on vegetarianism or veganism but would agree with William Morris that “a man can hardly be a sound Socialist who puts forward vegetarianism as a solution of the difficulties between labour and capital, as some people do”Those who advocate animal rather than human liberation put the cart before the horse. Cruelty to animals will go the way of all forms of cruelty, when a real civilised existence becomes a possibility to everyone. The rise in demand for "cruelty-free" products in Western countries shows that, given the luxury of choice, people prefer not to be responsible for inflicting such suffering and without a global revolution in the way society collectively owns and controls its resources people are never going to get the luxury of choice over this or any other resource question. Unless and until the welfare and humane treatment of humans is first attended to the question of the ethical treatment of animals must remain an issue waiting for its moment.https://socialismoryourmoneyback.blogspot.com/2012/03/compassion-for-who-people-or-animals.html
As it seems as if the trial has proved a cost-effective success, could we now try the same strategy with some of our other videos,I have a liking for Paddy's Capitalism and other Kids Stuff, the full video and the shorter election non-party political broadcast extract
An article that is sympathetic to the White Helmets by a lobby group that the article describes as "a humanitarian charity" but more a spin-off from the activist PR company Purpose.https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/dec/31/fake-news-survey-russia-main-culprit-uk-social-media-users
https://communistanarchism.blogspot.co.uk/
Quote:As former members of the Anarchist Federation (previously Anarchist Communist Federation) we contributed to the initial writing up and development of the Aims & Principles of that organisation. Consequently, we still adhere to the AF Aims & Principles presentedIn terms of activity, we see things similarly to how Solidarity group said it fifty years ago: Meaningful action, for revolutionaries, is whatever increases the confidence the autonomy, the initiative, the participation, the solidarity, the equalitarian tendencies and the self-activity of the masses and whatever assists in their demystification. Sterile and harmful action is whatever reinforces the passivity of the masses, their apathy, their cynicism, their differentiation through hierarchy, their alienation, their reliance on others to do things for them and the degree to which they can therefore be manipulated by others – even by those allegedly acting on their behalf.With the possibility of the Libcom forum folding and a division within AF, I wonder if they have their own Pvt Frazer expressing gloom and doom.
