We need to talk about Bernie

December 2022 Forums General discussion We need to talk about Bernie

Viewing 15 posts - 61 through 75 (of 107 total)
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  • #117170
    alanjjohnstone
    Keymaster

    One of the more sympathetic views of Sanders is that he managed to re-focus attention upon some of the fundamentals of the socialist case…not just socialism but also class and inequality.This article actually presents a case that from a review of the media, he succeeded in introducing these topics into the debate and opened the door for future progress. http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/37326-how-sanders-shaped-the-national-discourse-on-class-a-media-analysis

    #117171
    alanjjohnstone
    Keymaster

    Those who supported Sanders are now in the process of forming a movement called "Our Revolution…which is?This article gives some insighthttp://www.counterpunch.org/2016/08/29/bernie-sanders-or-revolution-a-statement-or-a-question/

    Quote:
    Weaver’s insertion into the just forming OR, apparently by Sanders, also shows just what kind of organization the politicos at the top want the OR to be. Why hasn’t there been some kind of democratic process to determine who will lead the OR, its supporters should ask themselves? And what about the 100 or so “Board” members of the OR? How has it been “selected” and by whom? Why not elected? Or the OR’s chair, Larry Cohen, former head of the Communications Workers of America union. Who made him ‘chair’ of the Board?… These are organizational questions that in turn determine what kind of strategy is adopted. The OR may be “revolutionary” in its objectives, but certainly not at this point in its strategy—and even more certainly not in terms of its organizational structure. A counter-revolutionary strategic focus attempting to reform the Democrat Party from “inside” – with appointed managers like Weaver and selected Board chairs like Cohen in a top-down organizational structure – will not constitute “Our Revolution.” It will still “be” theirs.

    I am minded of this songs lyrics"No saviour from on high deliversNo faith have we in prince or peerOur own right hand the chains must shiverChains of hatred, greed and fear"

    #117172
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    There is nothing revolutionary in the so called Bernie Sanders' revolution, even more, it contradicts the materialist conception of history, and there are several so called pseudo  Communist Parties who are supporting him and his so called revolution. No wonder why workers are so confused about the concept of socialism and communismHe is just another crooked politician, and a bullshitter  who used the workers as bait for the Democratic Party, and used the workers campaign contributions  for the benefits of the leadership of the Democratic Party and the US ruling class.All the promises that he made were implemented by the US ruling class in the past during the presidency of Roosevelt. It is nothing new. They were implemented by the capitalist class in order to pacify the US workers,  to destroy real working class movement , and to motivate workers to support capitalism and reformism. Many of those reforms have already been removed by  the ruling class too

    #117173
    alanjjohnstone
    Keymaster

    Came across this article which made me think we have not benefited from Sanders "socialism" legacy.http://www.commondreams.org/views/2016/09/12/seizing-moment-young-socialists-take-old-democratic-guard

    Quote:
    "DSA membership has been exploding," Kayla Pace, the co-chair of the Young Democratic Socialists of America (YDS), DSA's student section, told me in an interview. "DSA is getting 200 new members a month on average, this is up from the year prior with only 50 to 75 recruits a month."

    I'd hazard a guess that other organisations in America claiming to be "socialist" are also reaping a growth in membership from the Sanders "socialist effect"Could we have done something different, something more?Even if it was just only 2 or 3 new members a month, even one or two a month, it would have had an enormous impact upon the WSPUS

    #117174
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Bernie Sanders is just a vagabond. Now,  he is making campaign for Hillary Clinton, because her popularity is  declining due to the fact that many young peoples are joining the Green Party. Where is the so called independent  third party that he was talking about ? In any way, it is going to be another  bourgeois party, or party of poverty PS The so called American democracy is just a joke, in any of the so  called Banana Republic politician have more participation in the political system, the leaders of the Green Party and Libertarian Party were going to be arrested because they wanted to be included in the political debate. In others countries the only requirements to be registered as a  political party are very minimal, and even more,  communists can participate in the radio and television

    #117175
    Sympo
    Participant

    How many members does the WSPUS have?

    #117176
    SonofRage
    Participant
    Sympo wrote:
    How many members does the WSPUS have?

    I can ask, but only a handful ever participate in the email list for what that is worth. 

    #117177
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    The WSPUS has a very small membership, and it is very difficult for them to find new membersThe USA is one of the most difficult society to become a real socialists, or a communist due to the big influence of the capitalist ideology, or bourgeois ideology in the minds of the workers, surrounded by all the illusions that it also created in the workers, plus the historical distortions. Socialists in the USA are like  chicken teeth and fish legs.The US capitalists have spread the idea that in Russia everybody was brainwashed, but, probably,  it was only done for a few years, but the US workers have been brainwashed for more than 200 years, and division among workers started since the very beginning. The propaganda that Donald Trump is making right now is very old, it is nothing new, the first illegals were the Indians ( The Indians are from India )The US government placed on jails citizens who followed Russian state capitalism, and in Latin America they asked their puppet government to place in jail anybody that was reading Marx, or Engels, and others were killed, and bookstores were not allowed to sell those books, they have to sell comics books and romantic novels. Who the hell can get political consciousness reading distortions ? Actually, the so called Communist Party of the US who has a large membership  has been supporting Obama for eight years, and now they are supporting Hillary Clinton, that do create more confusions tooPS One of  their best solution ( WSPUS )  to be widely known is to establish a public forum of discussion, and peoples able to speak more than one  language,  but if you want to catch and eat fish, you have to wet your rear in the river in order to get it.Several years ago the WSM/SPGB was unknown in Latin America and the Caribbean islands, and a forum was established an now even the Anarchists are publishing some of the writing of the WSM/SPGB, and many articles have been translated and updated, and we have two members on an area influenced by Castroism and Guevarism. Robbo's articles about socialism is very popular, and ex-priest has published some of the articles of the SPThe only real Socialist Party that ever existed in Latin America was created in Jamaica ( Jamaica belongs to Latin America, they have not been included because they are blacks and they do not  speak Spanish, or Portuguese even more the name Latinos is wrong too )  founded under the same principles of the WSM

    #117178
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    alanjjohnstone wrote:
    Came across this article which made me think we have not benefited from Sanders "socialism" legacy.http://www.commondreams.org/views/2016/09/12/seizing-moment-young-socialists-take-old-democratic-guard

    Quote:
    "DSA membership has been exploding," Kayla Pace, the co-chair of the Young Democratic Socialists of America (YDS), DSA's student section, told me in an interview. "DSA is getting 200 new members a month on average, this is up from the year prior with only 50 to 75 recruits a month."

    I'd hazard a guess that other organisations in America claiming to be "socialist" are also reaping a growth in membership from the Sanders "socialist effect"Could we have done something different, something more?Even if it was just only 2 or 3 new members a month, even one or two a month, it would have had an enormous impact upon the WSPUS

    If they change their principles to a stateless, leaderless, and  moneyless society they will not get one every month. Workers are more attracted toward reformism. The SLP of  America  is older than  all those organizations and it is defunct

    #117179
    Sympo
    Participant
    SonofRage wrote:
    I can ask, but only a handful ever participate in the email list for what that is worth. 

    No, that isn't necessary. Thank you for for offering, though

    #117180
    jondwhite
    Participant
    mcolome1 wrote:
    alanjjohnstone wrote:
    Came across this article which made me think we have not benefited from Sanders "socialism" legacy.http://www.commondreams.org/views/2016/09/12/seizing-moment-young-socialists-take-old-democratic-guard

    Quote:
    "DSA membership has been exploding," Kayla Pace, the co-chair of the Young Democratic Socialists of America (YDS), DSA's student section, told me in an interview. "DSA is getting 200 new members a month on average, this is up from the year prior with only 50 to 75 recruits a month."

    I'd hazard a guess that other organisations in America claiming to be "socialist" are also reaping a growth in membership from the Sanders "socialist effect"Could we have done something different, something more?Even if it was just only 2 or 3 new members a month, even one or two a month, it would have had an enormous impact upon the WSPUS

    If they change their principles to a stateless, leaderless, and  moneyless society they will not get one every month. Workers are more attracted toward reformism. The SLP of  America  is older than  all those organizations and it is defunct

    The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it. So could we have done something different, something more?

    #117181
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I don't think most americans are ready to accept somethign using the name Socialism or Communism, but most of us are so uninformed we wouldn't know socialism or communism if it came to us under a different name.  the traditional response to charges Bernie is a socialist are not to defend socialism, but to argue Bernie isn't realliy a socialist.  He calls himeself a democratic socialist, and others rephrase that to be a social democrat and then that gets turned into an argument that he's just calling for a safety net and less innequality and a well regulated marketplace. 

    #117182
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    Steve-SanFrancisco-UserExperienceResearchSpecialist wrote:
    I don't think most americans are ready to accept something using the name Socialism or Communism, but most of us are so uninformed we wouldn't know socialism or communism if it came to us under a different name.  the traditional response to charges Bernie is a socialist are not to defend socialism, but to argue Bernie isn't realliy a socialist.  He calls himeself a democratic socialist, and others rephrase that to be a social democrat and then that gets turned into an argument that he's just calling for a safety net and less innequality and a well regulated marketplace. 

    That is not the only thing that most peoples in the US of North America do not know, they are also unaware of the history of others countries, and the history of their own country, and what their government do to others countries, and how many peoples they have killed in others countriesMost of the real socialists who have existed in the USA immigrated  from others countries, such as England, Canada and Latin America. It is really ironic that a country with so many proletarian, and  wage slaves have never built a real socialist-communist party, and the left wingers groups that exist do not participate in the electoral process.In some so called Bananas Republics, ( a name used to nominate the sub developed countries ) there are more political parties, participating in the electoral process, and the requirements are minimal, and left wingers are able to talk on the radio, television and publish articles in the commercial newspapers, and they have places where workers can go and read their newspapers. Communism is not a dirty word in those countries, , only for the USA ambassador sitting on the US Embassy, ( she or does not know the meaning either )  and they the ones who provided the list of communists, or left wingers  to be killed PS American are all the peoples who are born,  or are  living in the so called American continents, and Islands, Mexico and Venezuela are also United States. ( US of Mexico, US of Venezuela ) . My Grandfather never had a formal education and he knew that the Soviet Union was not a socialist country, and some peoples with PHD degree  in political sciences, philosophy, or history, do not know that. His medium of information and education was a shortwave radio

    #117183
    jondwhite
    Participant
    Steve-SanFrancisco-UserExperienceResearchSpecialist wrote:
    I don't think most americans are ready to accept somethign using the name Socialism or Communism, but most of us are so uninformed we wouldn't know socialism or communism if it came to us under a different name.   

    see here for evidence to the contraryhttp://depts.washington.edu/moves/SP_intro.shtml

    #117184
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    jondwhite wrote:
    Steve-SanFrancisco-UserExperienceResearchSpecialist wrote:
    I don't think most Americans are ready to accept something using the name Socialism or Communism, but most of us are so uninformed we wouldn't know socialism or communism if it came to us under a different name.   

    see here for evidence to the contraryhttp://depts.washington.edu/moves/SP_intro.shtml

    That historical passage has been removed from the book of USA  History. The only real Historian has been Howard ZInn, and his books will never be used as textbook on the Education System, they want the students to continue reading fairy tales, an nonsense about the so called American dream. Howard Zinn has been read more outside of the USA than Inside of the USA.

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