The Elizabeth Warren Thread

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This topic contains 82 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  alanjjohnstone 1 week, 1 day ago.

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  • #184645

    ALB
    Participant

    According to a recent opinion poll, “half of young Americans would rather live in a socialist society”. But what do the mean by “socialism”? Another poll result:

    This increased visibility of socialism and the prevalence of candidates who in one way or the other are associated with the socialist label makes it important to understand how this concept is understood by average Americans — the objective of the current research.

    The broad group of responses defining socialism as dealing with “equality” are quite varied — ranging from views that socialism means controls on incomes and wealth, to a more general conception of equality of opportunity, or equal status as citizens.

    In addition to the 17% of Americans who define socialism as government ownership of the means of production, other more traditional or historical views of socialism include those who say it means modified communism (6%) or restrictions on freedom (3%).

    That leaves 19% of all mentions which are focused on a “gentler, lighter” view of socialism — government provision of benefits and services, liberal government or some type of cooperative plan. In addition to 6% non-specific derogatory comments, 6% describe it as getting along with other people, 8% give miscellaneous responses, and about a quarter of Americans (23%) said they couldn’t answer the question.

    Still, better that more people there are coming to see the word “socialism” as something “good” rather than the object of “non-specific derogatory comments”. At least that should allow us a better hearing.

     

    #184646

    alanjjohnstone
    Participant

    “about a quarter of Americans (23%) said they couldn’t answer the question.”

    Should they be our target audience?

    #184649

    Marcos
    Participant

    “about a quarter of Americans (23%) said they couldn’t answer the question.”

    Should they be our target audience?

     

    I think that poll is wrong. More 95% of the peoples from the USA do not have a clue of what socialism is

    #184660

    alanjjohnstone
    Participant

    One of the lesser known 2020 hopefuls, Peter Buttigieg [who?], mayor of South Bend, Indiana,[where?] talks about the Republican “socialist” scare campaign.

    “I think in many ways it’s a term that’s lost its meaning because it’s being thrown around politically,” Buttigieg replied. “I’ll give you an example, the Affordable Care Act.”

    “This was a piece of legislation, as a way to improve our health care system created by conservatives,” he went on, naming the Heritage Foundation as the wellspring. “The first time anyone tried it, it was a Republican governor in Massachusetts. Then a Democratic President, Obama, basically stole this Republican idea that was based on market on market principles,” Buttigieg continued. “And then the moment it became associated with him, suddenly people are calling it socialism. They’re talking like it’s the road to winding up in the Soviet Union if we do this, which was a scare tactic.”

    “It’s also one of the reasons why this term has lost its meaning,” he continued, and changed the spin. “I believe that capitalism is this incredibly powerful force that can do a lot of good, but I guess in the same way people talk about democratic socialism, I want to talk about democratic capitalism.”

    2020 hopeful Pete Buttigieg destroys GOP ‘scare tactics’ about socialism

    #184661

    Marcos
    Participant

    ACA considered as a socialist measure is in a reality a tax law imposed in a group of peoples which earn certain amount of money above the level of the working class, in order to finance the Medicare/Medicaid expansion. The peoples who want to remove it are not anti-socialists, they are rich peoples who are  anti-government regulation and expropriation, but it is not done in order to benefit the working class, the ACA also provide financial benefits to the rich peoples and the same time because it benefits the insurance companies, the pharmaceutical and its executive, there are executive in the Medical field who are earning more than 14 millions per years. Taxation in a socialist society would be an antiquity. It is a clear indication that confusion prevails, the blind guiding the blinds. The expression Democratic socialism indicates that there is one socialism that is democratic, and another one that is not democratic, another confusing expression because socialism is going to be the most democratic society that human beings have ever experienced

     

    #184663

    alanjjohnstone
    Participant

    The Democratic Socialists of America formally endorses Bernie Sanders after a one-week advisory poll open to all dues-paying members that endorsed Sanders 3 to 1 (13,324 people, roughly a quarter of DSA’s membership, weighed in.)

    https://www.commondreams.org/news/2019/03/22/only-socialist-us-history-serious-chance-winning-dsa-endorses-bernie-sanders-2020

    An analysis of this here

    http://inthesetimes.com/article/21803/inside-the-democratic-socialists-of-americas-big-decision-to-endorse-bernie

    DSA’s Afrosocialist and Socialists of Color Caucus issued an open letter urging the NPC to withhold an endorsement until Sanders “acknowledges the validity of black demands for reparations in America,” and noting the organization’s “deficiencies on issues of race and racism.” The statement came in response to a February 25 CNN town hall in which Sanders declined to say he supported reparations.

    #184669

    ALB
    Participant

    Afrosocialist

    What’s that? Sounds a bit racist rather than socialist. I thought socialism was about uniting all workers and, in socialism. all people.

    #184672

    Marcos
    Participant

    Reparations will not resolve the problems of the colored peoples. Racism is not the main problem, capitalism is the one which  generates division among the human beings

    #184678

    alanjjohnstone
    Participant

    As others have pointed out, for the first time in a long time, socialism is actually being featured in the political conversations.

    Eugene Debs has been re-discovered by the media

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/mar/23/american-socialism-bernie-sanders-eugene-debs

    #184679

    Marcos
    Participant

    Besides Eugene Debs they must mention Daniel De Leon and the Socialist Labor Party of America, which printed a very informative newspaper known as The People, i

    http://www.slp.org/facts.htm

    http://www.slp.org/what_is.htm

    http://www.slp.org/De_Leon.htm

    http://www.slp.org/pdf/slphist/us_socsm.pdf.  Socialism in the USA, from Utopia to science

    #184683

    alanjjohnstone
    Participant

    I’m sorry to say, Marcos, in all my internet travels to American progressive websites the SLP and De Leon are never mentioned even when many others such as Big Bill Haywood and the IWW are referred to except occasionally by myself in the comments.

    De Leon remains a lost figure for the Left and it is probably due to the fact that todays political left do not share any of the SLP’s ideas.

    To bring about re-newed attention in the SLP/De Leon will most likely be as difficult as to create any interest in the WSPUS or even John Keracher and the Proletariat Party.

    Perhaps Robbo will include such references to our “political cousins” as the Standard once said, in a strategy of resurrecting the WSPUS.

    Although he stood for the Presidency on a number of occasions, Debs never actually held any organizational office within the SPA, declining nominations for its EC etc.

    #184684

    Marcos
    Participant

    I know, Daniel de Leon has been forgotten despite all the theoretical contributions that he made and the SLP is practically dead

    #184693

    alanjjohnstone
    Participant

    A new Fox News poll suggests Sanders and Biden — who has not announced a run just yet — are the only two democrats right now who would beat the president in a hypothetical head-to-head match up if the election was held today.

    Biden enjoys a bigger lead in the poll results, with a 7 point advantage over Trump

    Sanders victory was closer. He received support from 44 per cent of those surveyed compared to Trump’s 41 per cent. As the poll has a margin of error of plus-or-minus three points Sanders and Trump would be another tight race, probably dependent on the Electoral College designating the winner again

    Warren and Kamala Harris, trailed Trump slightly just 2 per cent short in their own head-to-head scenarios.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election/bernie-sanders-joe-biden-trump-2020-fox-news-poll-a8837806.html

    #184694

    alanjjohnstone
    Participant

    “For the Democrats, a woman or a person of colour will fill one of the top two spots. It’s not going to be two white guys. That’s not happening. That’s gone.”

    Biden already well ahead in the polls to receive the Democrat nomination as presidential candidate even though he is still to declare, has the media already speculating about his Vice-president – the preference being for Stacey Abrams

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election/joe-biden-stacey-abrams-running-mate-2020-campaign-a8836206.html

    #184699

    Marcos
    Participant

    They also run a poll saying that Donald Trump is going to win by a landslide in the 2020 election

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