Scottish? English? Who Cares?

April 2024 Forums Comments Scottish? English? Who Cares?

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 41 total)
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  • #102213
    steve colborn
    Participant

    Lets put it this way Duncan, when these oil deposits are exploited, who will be the recipients of this bounty? Who are the recipients now? who have been the recipients in the past? Not the "Scottish" people, but the shareholders of the companies doing the exploration! If oil is found off Wales, who will be the recipients of this bounty? not the people of Wales, but the shareholders of the companies doing the exploration"!!! Do you get it now? Do you get the fact, that we, the vast majority, have no claim, nor entitlement to the wealth of the world? To mineral wealth that was laid down hundreds of millions of years before the Capitalist parasites or their forebears even existed? But by dint of violence, threatened or used, they have garnered this wealth (that should rightly belong to all humanity) to themselves, and use our kith and kin, to protect their minority THEFT of that which should belong to us all!!! Do you not, GET IT?

    #102212
    ALB
    Keymaster
    duncan lucas wrote:
    Scots dont vote Tory only one MP in Scotland 100s in England  we dont think the same as England our first thought is to those less well off than themselves Englands first thought is -how are my shares doing or is the  price iof my house rising. THey just dont CARE the same its called Humanitarianism and they are sadly lacking in that area .

    Once again what you say needs correcting.According to a recent book Sex, Lies and the Ballot Box (edited by Philip Cowley and Robert Ford. Biteback Publishing), it would also appear that the prevailing underpinning values of voters in Wales and Scotland, for instance, are not that different on most issues to those of people in parts of the UK that tend to vote Conservative.More here:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/scottish-politics/11242539/Scotland-and-England-How-different-are-they-really.html

    Quote:
    According to Ms Henderson, the data shows "in no case are there significant differences between Scotland, Wales and England", but she notes Scots are more likely "to report themselves as being left-wing than other Britons".
    #102214
    duncan lucas
    Participant

    You are tumbling over yourself to make your "we are all the same people " fit in with your political logic when the truth is we are as different as chjaslk and cheese . You sem to deny nationality of countries and people so you feel easier saying "We stand for one people whereever they are " .This defies logic ,the truth common sense and percieved actuality. Each nation is people unto themselves who think ,act  differently . England votes for right wing neo-cons Scotland votes for left wing parties =:abour -up until they stabbed the Scots in the  back  and now the SNP as THey Demonstrate the properties of left wing by implimenting left wing policies wh i ch most English   people hate so vote in Cameron /Blair  and many more  right wing politicians thats a Fact  . To say we are all the same is beyond belief . Tell the Americans they act the same as Englishmen and they will think you crazy the same with German and the Irish demonstrated in blood that ="We are not English  " THey fought and died for their own identity and WON !  They beat the English government and they are proud of it. Tell them they are not Irish . Your stand on shaky ground using thaty as a political base . If you cant see the World as it is then you dont live in reality but a dream of your own view of perfect society . You must lknow the Socialist Party has few votes  but the SNP have a Majority in SCotland . Are tyou saying a large majority  of Scots voted in the SNP but they didnt ??  real life facts speak for themselves The tories in Scotland could lose their one MP and Labour are shaking in their shoes that their traditional majority ( in Westminster )  will deminish due to the Scots seeing the light as tom the 2 years of Westminster lies.As well as fearmongering -IE- a border post and customs at Berwick if that is the case where is the one between North and Southern Ireland ?? You will lose your OAP,s Absolute Bull Even the US admitted thatb Sciotland would be better off and higher up the GDP ladder than England . Why do you continue to back up lies ?? Why not be truthful ? BEcause that is how the NWO want society to be brought down to the LCD sop thatb they are more pliable to buy consumer products .Look how the BBC has subunk to a low level . No longer the pride of the country . Germany now far exceeds the UK in intellectual programs while the masses are fed rubbish here. No my vision of Socialism is more realistic and achievable than yours.

    #102215
    ALB
    Keymaster
    duncan lucas wrote:
    No my vision of Socialism is more realistic and achievable than yours

    What, an English-hating Scottish nationalism ! Maybe at the moment that is more achievable than a world without frontiers where the Earth's resources have become the heritage of all humanity, but it's not socialism. Incidentally, I'm not "English" by your standards, let alone ours. I don't understand why you seem to hate those fellow humans you call "English". It's a bit like the xenophobia UKIP propagates, only even narrower.

    #102216
    robbo203
    Participant
    duncan lucas wrote:
    You are tumbling over yourself to make your "we are all the same people " fit in with your political logic when the truth is we are as different as chalk and cheese . You seem to deny nationality of countries and people so you feel easier saying "We stand for one people wherever they are " .This defies logic ,the truth common sense and perceived actuality. Each nation is people unto themselves who think ,act  differently .

      But, Duncan, aren't you the one who is tumbling over yourself in your haste to assert that "we are all the same people" as far as the Scots are concerned in contradistinction to, say, the English?  An English worker has far more in common with a Scottish worker than the latter has with the capitalist class.  So why then chose to disaggregate society along nationalistic lines when it makes far more sense to do  so along class lines?Sure there are cultural variations between different regions – although much of this exists only in the fertile imagination of nationalist mythologisers (see Benedict Anderson's illuminating book  on the origins of nationalism, entitled Imagined Communities http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imagined_communities).  Socialists don't decry cultural differences; if anything we celebrate them.  It is global capitalism and the "McDonaldisation" of society that is eroding national differences (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonaldization) just as nationalism was itself – and still is – a force for cultural homogenisation and the obliteration of local cultures and dialects. However,  Scotland is no less part of the global capitalist world than anywhere else and you delude yourself with your fantasy of an  independent  "socialist" Scotland . The overwhelming majority of Scottish workers support capitalism in one form or another just as the overwhelming majority of English workers do likewise – however reluctantly or unenthusiastically.   To be be brutally frank they have no conception yet of an alternative to capitalism – to wage labour, to buying and selling, to the money system.  Your talk of a "socialist" Scotland shows that you too do not have a  clear idea of what socialism means either, unfortunately.To equate it with the "welfare state" or whatever is ludicrous.  The welfare state was actually introduced with the full support of the big capitalists back in the 1940s. As one of them, Samuel Courtauld,  put it, 'Social security of this nature will be about the most profitable long term investment the country could make. It will ultimately lead to a higher efficiency among workers and a lowering of production costs.'You don't seem to understand the point that capitalism can take many different forms and that to a large extent these forms themselves are the product of historically contingent factors.  In an increasingly competitive globalised economy  and with the decline in economic growth – and profit –  rates since the 1970s placing a burden on government spending, governments of all political persuasions have in recent years tended to evolve towards a neo-liberal form of governance.  It bears out the expression that "its not governments that run the system but the system that runs the governments".Believe you me, the government of  an independent Scotland, had it materialised, would be no different in any fundamental sense. It would be no less ruthless in its attacks on the working class than the present  conservative government and while it might appear to give more with the one hand it will also take more with the other. There is no such thing as a free lunch in capitalism. Since it has no intention to transcend the profit system such a government would have to abide by the rules of the game that require it to act in the interests of capital and therefore against the interests of wage labour.The fact that it is Scottish workers that the Scottish capitalists are exploiting will make absolutely no difference in the long run.  If it did those patriotic Scottish capitalists would simply relocate their capital elsewhere where they can get away scot free – to coin a phrase – from having to pay punitive levels of taxation that a militant Scottish  "socialist" government might want to impose on them to fund their ambitious welfare programme.  That will soon enough tame such a government and bring it to heel

    #102217
    alanjjohnstone
    Keymaster

     Duncan, i'm on record for complimenting the SNP Yes campaign for one of the best publicity events during the referendum. This was when they gathered together migrants and immigrants of all the world who had made Scotland their home and supported the Yes vote. For just once, the nationalists went beyond Scotland for the Scots simplistic solution and tried to embrace internationalism (albeit for a contradictory purpose)From your own posts, this is something you, yourself, have not managed to do. Can you not see this by re-reading your own messages? It is time for you to be a cosmopolitan, a citizen of the world, a member of the world's working class and perhaps hopefully an eventual member of the World Socialist Movement. Time is now for you to break the chains of parochialism and start seeing things from a global perspective. The situation we face is a real risk of extinction of every life form on the planet requires you to think of yourself not as a Scot but as homo sapian…a thinking man …so start using that old brain box of yours before it's too late. No-one is saying you cannot enjoy the thrill of the ceilidh and dance a reel to an accordion band. No-one is saying you cannot take pleasure in hill walking and delighting in the sights and sounds of the glens and mountains. No-one is saying you cannot appreciate the humour of Lex McLean, Chic Murray, Billy Connolly, Stanley Baxter. No-one is telling you what to wear if you decide upon a kilt, or choose to speak with friends and family in gaelic or doric. Socialists and non-Scots do all that. A peoples' culture belong to the people, all peoples, not just one nation. And to use a very maligned slogan …"We Arra People", not the lairds and clan chiefs, that grouse shooting aristocracy who trace themselves back to Bannockburn and claim to be Scots.

    #102218
    duncan lucas
    Participant

    Ah!  but Alan I am a "citizen of the World "  I post on a highly contoversial website and have done for the past year and a half. It tells the Truth a bout the World situation  and the lies told by the UK/US/EU governments and how the masses arec brainwashed by continious propaganda  thought up by big business . WE dont shut  our eyes /ears to the situation in Palestine where the Palestinians are being removed fron their land by incomers shot dead -men -women -children and babies – Where,s all the continious publicity about 1000s being killed but if one Isreali is killed its front page and who betide anybody that opens their mouth -cries of anti-semitic are shouted out  where,s the cries for the Palestinians ?? Have  you seen the  color photo of a father holding his baby in his arms with the rear of the babies head blown  off  .by an IDF sharpshooter  Ah !! but dont talk about it-well I do not only there but on two other international news websites 2 years before that till I was banned from those two because I was too truthful about the US  /UK/EU it got me taken off the net and my PC scrambled by back door attacks by GCHQ 7 times thanks M$ . Dont you know the US is doing a world  takeover cant you see their actions ?? war-war-war- and who for a wee middle east country thats who .  I most certainly am a man of the World I have talked to US professors one of which told me the Truth about 9 /11 -he was sacked for opening his mouth, yiou dont honestly believe 2 skyscrapers could colapse beautifully VERTICAL without being undermined .I was an engineer its Impossible for that to happen the steel strudcture was built round the lift shaft tio allow open plan , the US airforce was stood down that day on 12 minute  alert told to not answer phones at the control centre . the janitor was not called as a wirtness because he said he could hear  explosions  military explosive was used  causing cancer to many rescuers THe directors of operations was out helping the wounded instead of directing to find whomhad done it . I asked ANY structual engineer in the US in the Yellow pages to get back to me to tell me how it could colapse so beautifully vertical wiythout hitting buildings next to it -NO OFFERS !   All to invade IRaq UNDER A FALSE FLAG !  dead in IRaq nearly 1 million IRAQI,s  a few 1000 US troops . US warmongerers . there is a lot more but you wouldnt like it.  If the Socialist Party want to increase menmbers  you should campaign on social justice -help for the poor -sick 0-old but if you keep going on about  dismissing your country you will never get large enough public response from the Working class of whom I am . Youn should face up to reality as to who is causing all the wars in the World NOT Russia but the US -since  WW" 2  its invaded country after country killing millions of civilians ALL for PRofit is that not disgusting -terrible yet CAmeron -mil;lionaire and millionaire cabinet worship every US voice they hear and obey like puppy dogs . THats where I am focused I wont wait  as more and more wars arec started by the US  on instructions from elsewhere  -US are torturer .s  they  admit  it  and are helped by the UK -MI6 /etc . How can you keep quiet about that ?  And for the record there arec many US citizens agree with me . Those groups are attacked like I am for FRee TRUTHFUL speech. IN the NWO you must lie or keep your mouth shut well I dont mind dying for a cause  like several government scientists have died by government contract.

    #102219
    DJP
    Participant

    The troof is out there

    #102220
    alanjjohnstone
    Keymaster

    Our website crashed very soon after your last message was posted (possibly by a denial of service cyber attack)….hmmmmmm.????…They don't want you talking to us 

    #102221
    moderator1
    Participant

    Reminder: 1. The general topic of each forum is given by the posted forum description. Do not start a thread in a forum unless it matches the given topic, and do not derail existing threads with off-topic posts.

    #102222
    SocialistPunk
    Participant
    duncan lucas wrote:
    I suggest you come and live in Scotland you are living in "book world "  and tal;king semantics I am talking reality . Socialism will get  nowhere if it lives in Idealism land  I dont need to read books I spent my life reading them only action is called for  I was the poorest in my street -suffered  from malutrician fainted in the school playground -served a 5 year apprenticeship on the CLyde as a maintenance engineer worked in many jobs including living in England the vast majority of English people put their share prices before humanity and vote in Cameron and co if not new labour -AKA new Tory both cut back welfare for the poor /sick/old Why dont English people not vote for Socialism ?? because of selfishness ,not SCptland 83 % are Socialist. and hate Cameron millionaire BUT they have sense of reality they believe in capitalism WITH A SMALL c . What you are doing is playing into the hands of the NWO /Banksters of divide and conquer and it works . I didnt  read about Socialism I lived it !

    Hi Duncan,I was wondering what you mean by the phrase I've highlighted in bold?

    #102223
    alanjjohnstone
    Keymaster

    In his dreams, SP… in his dreams 

    #102224
    duncan lucas
    Participant

    Hello Socialist Punk. Idealism and talks on the theory of a poitical viewpoint are all very well but when you grow           up along with others just as poor as you you see real life you suffer along with others because you are poor . You see rich kids get everything in life while you get a bar of chocolat for Christmas ,you go to school with holes inyour shoes and a peice of cardboard covering the hole itb gets wet and you get the flu  as well as chillblains in the snow . Because you are not fed  you get illness after illness the organs in your body being denied vitamins dont develop correctly leading to operations in childhood . At morning service in primary school  you faint  from lack of food  in the school playground you faint as well .You are patronised by richer kids and laughed at  you are never shown any love or affection . Instead of me dying at an early age I developed an extremely strong will -power and determination to survive and I have . I deal only in reality not in wishful thinking I wake up not to a vision but the cold hard truth of life . THat is why I am not keen to go into intelectual debates as I am only interested in reality and action . I dont see life through rose-tinted glasses I see the poor burdened with more taxes and the rich have tax reductions to pay the IMF/World Banksters . You castigate Left Unity  but you dont or wont relise that that organisation is at least doing something physical to change society – Yes they dont come up to your Marxism standard but so what ? its people you should concentrate on not ideals which you will never achieve  if you are honest with yourself  as people wont vote for you in great  numbers in the UK . Why cant  you bend a little and stop infighting over ideals while the poor die ?  

    #102225
    alanjjohnstone
    Keymaster

    Duncan, he doesn't reflect our opinions or ideas and we disagree with much he says but you will appreciate this interview of Brian Coxhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?x-yt-ts=1422579428&v=2xvoSJThudc&x-yt-cl=85114404#t=52Cox represents the typical Old Labour viewpoint. 

    #102226
    duncan lucas
    Participant

    I read it yesterday Alan . New Labour is losing its voters because it is New Tory ,as you know most Scots voted Labour throughout their lives as many worked in engineering factories now removed by Maggie they were also members of the AEU as I was at the time which was affiliated to Labour but Labour went New Labour when they lost out to Maggie in votes (English votes ) After the packs of lies from Westminster for 2 years they are now thinking of bring out the arch Quisling -Gordon -I betrayed the SCots Brown to con the Scots again. What I admire about the English people is they would not be taken in by fear stories and go out and protest in the streets and write letters to their MP,s and they take notice . JUst look how the ""Pledge "" to the Scots was subverted and cut right down to please English voters . I realise that Marxism says we are all one people but have you tried telling SCots they are English ? WEstmionster has tried for 300 years -remember "North Britain " An Gallop survey in England a month or so before the referendum asked English people if they thought they were British or English -83 % said they were English -makes the poor wee SCot who says= I am a proud Scot BUT British look very foolish indeed . I actually admire the fact they feel so nationalistic about their country its just a pity  SCots are eassily swayed . You have an uphill struggle to change those point s of views  thats why I said you should at least think about the end result that you want and whether it is achievable knowing the UK population . Maggie had her "head screwed on " when she removed heavy engineering and closed down the factories and killed the unions thats why the US lauds her she is a "saint " of far right neo-capitalism. Cameron is obeying  Obommer -its Putin who is the aggressor not me . Who is nearly there with World far right capitalism if they bring Putin down thats it game over and Hell for the poor.

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