Scottish? English? Who Cares?

April 2024 Forums Comments Scottish? English? Who Cares?

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  • #82902
    PJShannon
    Keymaster

    Following is a discussion on the page titled: Scottish? English? Who Cares?.
    Below is the discussion so far. Feel free to add your own comments!

    #102198
    alanjjohnstone
    Keymaster

    An interesting article on English immigrtion to Scotlandhttp://www.historytoday.com/murray-watson/scotlands-english-clan

    #102199
    duncan lucas
    Participant

    English immigration to Scotland is for  one of two reasons . Most people coming here want "away from it all" the problem with that is that they  wont integrate and create "little Englands" everywhere.  Or they genuinely   want or believe in SCotlands Socialist agenda where 83 % of Scots vote for Socialism . No longer trusting New Labour as it is now new Tory. Socialism in Scotland is via the SNP NOT new Labour .if you dont know that then get out of LOndon and spend some time up here.

    #102200
    DJP
    Participant

    The only trouble with that is that SNP and Labour are not socialist, as we define it, and never have been. Both these parties only want to manage capitalism not change the basis of how society is organised. I suggest you read some of the introductory articles on this website…

    #102201
    duncan lucas
    Participant

    I suggest you come and live in Scotland you are living in "book world "  and tal;king semantics I am talking reality . Socialism will get  nowhere if it lives in Idealism land  I dont need to read books I spent my life reading them only action is called for  I was the poorest in my street -suffered  from malutrician fainted in the school playground -served a 5 year apprenticeship on the CLyde as a maintenance engineer worked in many jobs including living in England the vast majority of English people put their share prices before humanity and vote in Cameron and co if not new labour -AKA new Tory both cut back welfare for the poor /sick/old Why dont English people not vote for Socialism ?? because of selfishness ,not SCptland 83 % are Socialist. and hate Cameron millionaire BUT they have sense of reality they believe in capitalism WITH A SMALL c . What you are doing is playing into the hands of the NWO /Banksters of divide and conquer and it works . I didnt  read about Socialism I lived it !

    #102203
    DJP
    Participant
    duncan lucas wrote:
    I suggest you come and live in Scotland you are living in "book world "  and tal;king semantics I am talking reality . Socialism will get  nowhere if it lives in Idealism land  I dont need to read books I spent my life reading them only action is called for

    With all due respect you do not know me or where I live or come from.What action exactly do you think is called for?

    #102202
    jondwhite
    Participant

    The SPGB aren't interested in dividing those who stand for world socialism of common ownership. This isn't something the SNP stand for, the SNP stand for dividing workers between English and Scottish. Many Scottish workers agree with this and support the SNP. Doesn't make it right.

    #102204
    ALB
    Keymaster
    duncan lucas wrote:
    What you are doing is playing into the hands of the NWO /Banksters of divide and conquer and it works .

    He's just exposed himself here as a conspiracy theorist nutter. I wonder who he thinks are behind the "New World Order" these "banksters" are conspiring to bring about? Is it the Illuminati, the Elders of Zion or who?

    #102205
    DJP
    Participant
    ALB wrote:
    I wonder who he thinks are behind the "New World Order" these "banksters" are conspiring to bring about? Is it the Illuminati, the Elders of Zion or who?

    Same people as spraying those chemtrails innit?

    #102206
    duncan lucas
    Participant

    Do you live in a small local world of believing every lie Westminster  comes out with put forth by its propaganda organ the BBC. THe media lie they woundnt know the truth if they tripped over it in the  middle of the road. I havevneverv taken an illegal drug in my life but coments on thatb line show the amount of brainwashing westminster has injected into you. SNP trying to split  up the working class -absolute NEw Labour talk lie after lie You just wont accept english people vote in Tories who are selfish and reduce taxes on millionaires and SCotland TRIES to vote in Socialists  but  gets outvoted and therefore de-franchised . 83 % Scots =Socialism nearly the same amount in England vote in Tories now thats the truth ! And if you dont realise the Truth about the World then you cant be helped only the same old replies -Putin "warmongerer " -lie the US war mongerer True -How many wars has the US started since WW2 now look that up all inthe name of FReedom .kill millions and steal their resources pointing missiles  at Russia and calling Putin a war mongerer -Obommer war mongerer /Clinton war mongerer /Blair war mongerer/ and so on. Putin has outthought them on South Stream and they dont like it .the EU obeying US orders as is Cameron and who is it hurting -Europe and the poor not so inthe US whose trade agreement with the EU is a Capitalist  take over and a life of hell for the poor. So now I would be classed as a Commie Right ?-Never voted for them in my  life. It just shows the government has done a good brainwashing  on the UK public. If you dont  know big business rules the UK/US government well I cant help you. 

    #102207
    ALB
    Keymaster
    duncan lucas wrote:
    If you dont  know big business rules the UK/US government well I cant help you.

    But we do know that, or at least that all governments rule in the interest of profit-seeking businesses because in the end the economic forces of capitalism force them to adopt policies that give priority to profits and profitmaking. Sometimes a party arises that wants to favour smaller rather than bigger businesses. UKIP in Britain and the SNP in Scotland are examples. If you think that the SNP is socialist, we can help you if you like.

    #102208
    duncan lucas
    Participant

    THanks for the balanced reply ALB but I think you should bget somebody in the field in Scotland to give you the real sityuation instead of relying on 95 % of right wing newspapers . THe SNP isnt UKIP I dont like UKIP any more than you do its just like neo-con USA  administration. THe situation is follows = In Scotland the vast majority vote for the SNP because they are the leading left wing party . New Labour has been found out to be NEw Tory same policies /same cuts in welfare for the poor. votes along with the Tories . Dont you realise  that although we lost the independence vote that the ones voting for were ALL working class poor areas of SCotland . Glasgow-WEst Dunbartonshire (clydebank )  and Dundee and one other . IT was places like Edinburgh and well off areas that voted no . THey were helped by the Masonoic Lodge and the Orange order all told to vote no even had a Northern Ireland Unionist march for the no vote. Along with 2 years of blatant -patronising -arrogant LIES from Westminster . Some body here brought up the oil situation dont you kbnow that is the US trying to bring down Russia as iyt is the ONLY country stopping a world takeover by the Banksters/big business so they threaten it and blame it for a plane crash – BUT Russia intercepted a US coded satellite transmission that had a spy satellite coveniently positioned over  Ukraine  that showed the aircraft was attacked by fighters . Also some of the bodies had CANNON fire through them . Notice how there is now censorship applied to this incident  because the truth is not what they want the WEstern public to hear. Do you know that Tommy Sheriden a "dyed in the wool" Socialist  of old socialist traditions  as well as other Scottish Socialist and the Greens voted YES ??? It shows how out of touch your organisation is being LOndon based with London views  when your members get it wrong in judging Scotland . Its only Scotland that votes left England votes right  wing neo-con and thats a truthful fact !  scotland 83 % want a welfare run country but wth capitalism with a small c . After thev referendum Suddenly ??? word came out a new oil field was being opened up  and also west of Scotland therev is a Quote =MASSIVE oil field . When you all said no oil left lie afterv lie after lie . WEll the Scottish people have had enough of the lies from England thev referendum isnt going away in Scotland if the SNP do very well and flatten the back stabbing new labour then we will be asking for another one oin the future and we wont be believing all the scare                       stories or Quennie saying in an overheard situation on the phone -I woyuldnt like to lose Scotland well set up mam and MI5.                                    

    #102209
    steve colborn
    Participant

    Tommy Sheridan "a "dyed in the wool" Socialist  of old socialist traditions", you really think so duncan? because I don't and neither do my Scottish comrades. The same goes for the pro Capitalist, pro business SNP!Sheridan doesn't advocate Socialism, he advocates a society where he is one of the "Leaders". The SNP don't advocate Socialism, they are advocates of the Capitalist system, only with them in charge.A quick clue; Salmond wanted to keep the Pound as the Scottish medium of exchange. Socialists want to scrap all types of exchange, and have a Society based on the common ownership and democratic control of the means of producing and distributing the things we need to live.As we all contribute freely to make the things we, as humans, need to live, we will all take freely of this production, without the artificial constraints of a monetary or exchange system!!!

    #102210
    ALB
    Keymaster
    duncan lucas wrote:
    THe situation is follows = In Scotland the vast majority vote for the SNP because they are the leading left wing party .

    No, they don't. Here's the result of the last Scottish-wide elections, last May's Euroelections:Scottish National Party     389,503  28.99%Labour Party                       348,219   25.92%Conservative                       231,330   17.22%UKIP                                      140,534   10.45%Green Party                          108,305    8.06%Liberal Democrats               95,319     7.09%Britain First                             13,639     1.02%BNP                                          10,216     0.76%No2EU                                       6,418     0.48%I don't how you turn 29% into "the vast majority". It would be more accurate to say that the vast majority do not support the SNP. And you seem to have forgotten that the SNP lost the referendum.Let's at least have an argument on the basis of the facts.

    #102211
    alanjjohnstone
    Keymaster

    I'll pay no heed to the unsubstantiated claims about who shot down the Malaysian passenger plane but as ALB says let us stick to facts. (btw, aren't you curious to know why the Russians have never released details of that supposed proof  but only leave third-parties to say such information exists…spying is all about lying whether CIA or KGB or MI5, never trust any intelligence agency until the data is verified by neutral experts, and there are few.)So there is more oil in off the coast of Scotland than originally claimed. Ian Wood in September reckoned the SNP overestimates the reserves but i'll take your assertion of great new vast finds as true …but then i remind you of the high production costs compared with cheaper fracking and then add the latest scientific information that vast amounts of oil CANNOT be extracted since it would have a disastrous effect on global warming and climate change. So they simply cannot be exploited and as for the SNP claims to use the North Sea revenues to finance alternative renewables, that is like a junkie saying , i'll continue to peddle the dope to other addicts so i can afford to get off it myself. The Norwegian sovereign fund  operates exactly like any other investment fund…it invests its money in dictators…and the Alaska Permanent Fund, another model, the cash pay-outs are used to bribe voters to support pipeline's environmental destruction.As a citizen of Edinburgh, i'm pleased to learn my fellows in Craigmillar, Niddrie, Wester Hailes, Drylaw, Pilton are well-off. But, of course, it was only in the mid-1980s that the Tories finally lost control of Edinburgh council…oh, and before you leap to conclusions, the Tories are the ONLY party in history to obtain MORE than 50% of the entire Scottish vote and that in the mid-1950s which places the 1945 so-called landslide for Labour into perspective…So much for the socialist credentials of Scottish people. The fact is that there exists less of a radical tradition than conservativism with the small c. Red Clydeside was more about skilled engineers trying to stop by unskilled and women getting jobs. War production broke output records and the anti-war movement was insignificant.No need to go on about the New World Order, after all SNP are fully committed to the EU and NATO and the UN and the British monarchy…You can appeal to Sheridan on the Yes, others will appeal to Galloway for the No. But we appeal to the real interests of the working class….not solely the Scottish…not just the British…not merely the European…but we are for the interests of the world working class. Perhaps you forget that part of Marx in your socialist education…."WORKERS OF THE WORLD UNITES"…not this bit or that bit of the land but globally. And don't try to quote his support for Irish or Polish independence or i will need to counter with his opposition to any form of Slavic independence from the Austro-Hungarian Empire or his support for Prussian unification of Germany. He had special reasons for picking and choosing which peoples to support or not to support in nationalist struggles. Something for you to go and read up on. Duncan, i think your heart is in the right place but you have to take that one step further and rid yourself of the political baggage you still carry, just as we must also jettison our faiths in god. You ARE NOT a Scot…you are firstly a human being and secondly a worker…the accidental place of your birth is well down the list., somewhere scraping the bottom…despite what they keep telling you about your history. Try reading some of the archive posts on our Edinburgh/Glasgow branch blog for a fresh insight into the pasthttp://socialist-courier.blogspot.com/

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