March 2023 › Forums › General discussion › Russian Tensions
- This topic has 4,569 replies, 34 voices, and was last updated 2 hours, 17 minutes ago by Bijou Drains.
January 29, 2023 at 11:13 am #239774ALBKeymaster
I see that the Russia government itself is now beating the “anti-imperialist” drum or at least dancing to it:
Thought I’d look the World Anti-Imperialist Platform up. They seem to be a bunch of “Marxist-Leninists” as the Maoists now call themselves.
Towards the World Anti-Imperialist Platform, the Locomotive of World Anti-Imperialist RevolutionJanuary 29, 2023 at 12:01 pm #239780robbo203Participant
“Thought I’d look the World Anti-Imperialist Platform up. They seem to be a bunch of “Marxist-Leninists” as the Maoists now call themselves.”
These people are as bad as the left-wing supporters of the “Ukrainian national liberation struggle against Russian imperialism”. It is deliciously ironic that they both base their ideas and language on the same discredited and absurdly narrow Leninist definition of imperialism. They both end up supporting one capitalist regime against the other – a clear demonstration of the fact that they have no intention of ever thinking of transcending capitalism itself. In other words, both sides are pro-capitalist and therefore against the interest of the working class.
This bunch of pro-capitalists explicitly attacks the socialist position that workers have no interest in taking sides in this capitalist war:
“We further believe it to be of prime importance that workers should push back against and expose the lie that they have ‘no side’ in this war, since it is between ‘two imperialist groupings’ that are both enemies of the working and oppressed masses. ”
I have yet to hear an even remotely plausible reason as to why it would benefit Russian workers (or Ukrainian workers for that matter) to heed the call of the capitalist regime they live under and fight for the so-called “national interests”
of this capitalist state. Where is the advantage to workers to risk losing their lives, becoming seriously maimed, or having their homes destroyed all for the sake of a piece of tacky cloth called a flag? It’s dumb beyond comprehensionJanuary 30, 2023 at 1:13 am #239798
Can you define what YOU mean by socialism?
An economy organised around providing for peoples’ needs rather than maximising profits for the capitalist class.
“What political party are you a member of?”
I’m not a member of any party and don’t claim to be. You, on the other hand do.
“If not a member of any, what political party (past or present) do you judge to be the closest to your own political beliefs?”
“What were those accurate predictions and when were they made and what political-economic ideas were they based upon?”
Two of the most recent being that China’s economy would not collapse (a couple of years back it was all the rage to believe otherwise) and that Russia would easily defeat Ukraine on the battlefield if it came to war. This prediction was made before the war.
These predictions weren’t based on political/economic ideas. That is your downfall. It is why you are wrong about everything. You are purely ideoligical. Instead, my predictions were based on being able to discern accurate sources of information. A skill you sadly lack because you’re a confirmation bias seeking Guardian Bro.January 30, 2023 at 1:41 am #239799
Just to clarify, would that be the original CPGB formed in 1920?
Or the very much later CPGB that publishes the Worker Worker?January 30, 2023 at 3:10 am #239801
Russia’s new law on “LGBTQ propaganda,” in effect since December, effectively outlaws any public expression of LGBTQ behavior or lifestyle in Russia, and has resulted in book and film bans across the country.
The law punishes what has been called the promotion of “nontraditional sexual relations.” It prohibits dissemination in any medium, including advertisements, books, films and media. By “nontraditional,” the Russian authorities mean any sort of sexual activity between two men, or two women. “Brokeback Mountain” is on the blacklist. It includes books by Stephen Fry.
Any person who says something positive about love between two men may be forced to pay a fine. Anybody who praises a film in which two women kiss could end up in court. Anybody who publicly supports a friend who is considering changing gender, especially on social media, is committing an offense.
These examples, and many others, are now forbidden in Russia and can be punished with a fine of up to 5 million Russian rubles (around €65,000/$70,700).
https://www.dw.com/en/russia-bans-lgbtq-friendly-content-under-new-law/a-64516061January 30, 2023 at 6:53 am #239803robbo203Participant
Some voices raised against the madness of this capitalist war. Its an uphill struggle against the warmongers on both sides
January 30, 2023 at 7:21 am #239804Bijou DrainsParticipant
- This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by robbo203.
AJ – If not a member of any, what political party (past or present) do you judge to be the closest to your own political beliefs?”
“TN The CPGB.”
Are you sure you don’t mean CBBC?
🤣🤣🤣January 30, 2023 at 2:42 pm #239818Bijou DrainsParticipant
Tinky winky said – “ Two of the most recent being that China’s economy would not collapse (a couple of years back it was all the rage to believe otherwise) and that Russia would easily defeat Ukraine on the battlefield if it came to war”
China’s economy has clearly had some difficulties, it achieved growth of 3% in 2022, compared to the governments target of 5.5%. Other than 2020 (the start of the pandemic) growth has been the lowest since 1976 (Mao’s death).
As to predictions of collapse, not many credible economists predicted collapse. A few have said China will face economic difficulties, which appear to be the case. This all proves what Socialists have stated clearly for years. Boom and bust cycles are all part of the nature of capitalist production. Capitalist China is not immune to these cycles.
As to your prediction that Russia would easily defeat Ukraine? Well given that 10 months of war hasn’t achieved victory and the Russians have acknowledged 24,000 dead (probably more than that) I’d hate to see what would have happened if it has been difficult.
To put that figure into some perspective the US had 33,000 deaths in just over 3 years, of the Korean War, 47,400 deaths in 10 years of the Vietnam War and 1,900 deaths in the Afghan War.
So in terms of your “predictions”, your not really the new feckin Nostradamus, are you?January 30, 2023 at 11:50 pm #239829OzymandiasParticipantJanuary 31, 2023 at 6:58 am #239834
President of NATO member Croatia criticized Western nations for supplying Ukraine with heavy tanks and other weapons in its campaign against invading Russian forces, saying those arms deliveries will only prolong the war.
Zoran Milanovic told reporters that it’s “mad” to believe that Russia can be defeated in a conventional war.
“I am against sending any lethal arms there,” Milanovic said. “It prolongs the war…What is the goal? Disintegration of Russia, change of the government? There is also talk of tearing Russia apart. This is mad,” he added.January 31, 2023 at 3:33 pm #239856
There is much discussion in the media over the supply of sophisticated fighter planes to Ukraine and one of the reasons offered for not supplying those is that elaborate training is required.
While this may be one of the reasons, I think the real problem is that NATO has tried to make this war a war of defence and limited to within Ukraine’s official pre-2014 frontier, ignoring the annexations of Crimea and the Donbas
Long-range missile systems were provided only on the condition that they were not used on Russian rear lines
in its territory. There has been the occasional attack on Russian airfields but by drones and kept purposefully ambiguously vague.
With aircraft travelling at high-speed interception, aerial dogfights would be bound to cross into Russian legal air-space. It provides Russia with further excuses that NATO was provoking not just a proxy war on Ukraine soil but a direct attack upon Mother Russia itself, an unnecessary escalation, risking total war.February 1, 2023 at 1:11 am #239860
“Every male between 20 and 55 years of age to be conscripted in Ukraine—regardless of family status, profession, physical or mental health, or any other consideration.
Lists are to be prepared by every employer, organization, or institution (the document concerns the Kiev region specifically).”February 1, 2023 at 2:17 am #239866
TS endorses Lenin’s concept of imperialism.
Does TS also accept Lenin’s idea of revolutionary defeatism in that working people cannot win in a capitalist war and should advocate a class war instead to bring about one’s “own” nation’s defeat?
“…Wartime revolutionary action against one’s own government indubitably means not only desiring its defeat, but really facilitating such a defeat. A revolution in wartime means civil war: the conversion of a war between governments into a civil war is, on the one, hand, facilitated by military reverses (‘defeats’) of governments: on the other hand, one cannot actually strive for such a conversion without thereby facilitating defeat…”February 1, 2023 at 3:49 am #239867
“Does TS also accept Lenin’s idea of revolutionary defeatism in that working people cannot win in a capitalist war and should advocate a class war instead to bring about one’s “own” nation’s defeat?”
This is not a war of competing capitalisms. For the US/NATOstan it is an imperialist war for markets and resources but for Russia it is an existential war of defense against said imperialist aggression. The very existence of the entity known as Russia is at stake.
February 1, 2023 at 5:50 am #239869
- This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by TrueScotsman.
TS ‘The very existence of the entity known as Russia is at stake.’
(Changed from earlier wording ‘The existence of the Russian state is at stake.’)
And why should any worker care?
“The working men have no country. We cannot take away from them what they have not got.” The Communist Manifesto
It is Russia and Ukraine and all other nation-states around the world that we should seek to eliminate.
Our case is that it should not simply be the Russian worker to wish defeat upon its government but that workers everywhere should aspire for the same.
“The existence of the state and the existence of slavery are inseparable” – Marx
Do you oppose another Russian Revolution that deposes the Russian oligarchy from power and ownership?
A defeat for Russia could possibly facilitate and lead to such a social revolution.
A defeat for Ukraine merely brings occupation and the imposition of a puppet regime.
- This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by alanjjohnstone.
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