April 17, 2018 at 10:32 am #132403Young Master Smeet wrote:and we can also what would happen to civilians had Assad's mob gone in to dig the insurgents out (remember, children starved to death in Mosul)
I wouldn't put it that way. It would be equally accurate to say "had the bearded crazies of the Army of Islam not surrendered". In fact, if they hadn't split and some reneged on the surrender agreement neither the bombing of Douma (whether chemical or not) not the three rogue states' bombing of Syria would have taken place.As Tony Cliff might have put it, NEITHER DAMASCUS NOR MECCA.April 17, 2018 at 11:39 am #132404
Young Master SmeetParticipant
Indeed, but it does mean Assad overwhelming has an incentive to use chemicals:1) To minimise Russian Casualties.2) His army is threadbare on troops and loyalty.IIRC, the Iraqi army got minced in Mosul, and Assad has had at least three Mosuls to dig through.Admittedly, Fisks report on the scale of the tunnelling was instructive.April 17, 2018 at 4:27 pm #132405
Why? Are chemical weapons more effective than more conventional ones? Rolling chlorine bombs out of a helicopter seems less destructive and so less effective than dropping a proper bomb or firing a missile from a war plane.April 17, 2018 at 5:21 pm #132406
i Hydrocyanic acid is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_cyanide http://www.softschools.com/formulas/chemistry/hydrocyanic_acid_uses_properties_structure_formula/228/ the Nazis used it or variants of it in Auschwitz-BirkenauI think. That is ‘poisonous’. It is vary volatile and/or boils at room temperature sort of thing and the vapour kills you pretty quick. It is a bit safer I suppose if it dissolved in water. Sodium cyanide is a solid and relatively safer unless you eat it. Mixing it with any acid and you immediately get hydrogen cyanide gas/vapour. That is what they mean bascically by these so called binary agents. You have two components that are separately much safer and when you mix them they quickly produce something horrid.April 18, 2018 at 4:47 am #132407Quote:medics who responded to the suspected gas attack in Douma have been subjected to “extreme intimidation” by Syrian officials who seized biological samples, forced them to abandon patients and demanded their silence.
With so many conflicting narratives, i find it hard to make a judgmentApril 18, 2018 at 5:12 am #132408
In defence of Fisk's Ghouma reporthttps://www.commondreams.org/views/2018/04/17/robert-fisks-douma-report-rips-away-excuses-air-strike-syriaApril 18, 2018 at 7:59 am #132409
Young Master SmeetParticipant
ALB,people in tunnels are hard to hit with bang bang bombs, but gas, being heavier than air, will sink and get them. Likewise people bunkered into concrete buildings: much better than sending men in to pick them off.Bet gas is cheaper too.April 18, 2018 at 8:10 am #132410
Another chemistry lesson:https://www.businessinsider.com.au/chlorine-attack-effects-sarin-chemical-weapons-2018-4April 18, 2018 at 8:21 am #132411alanjjohnstone wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/17/syria-crisis-medics-intimidated-over-douma-gas-attackQuote:medics who responded to the suspected gas attack in Douma have been subjected to “extreme intimidation” by Syrian officials who seized biological samples, forced them to abandon patients and demanded their silence.
With so many conflicting narratives, i find it hard to make a judgment
As an organisation financed by the bombing states, UOSSOM would say that, wouldn't they? It's part of a propaganda war in case the OPCW inspectors should find there was no gas attack, which of course would have devastating political consequences.http://www.uossm.org/who_we_areI agree, though, that it's not so much a question of who to believe as to who to disbelieve the least.April 18, 2018 at 5:37 pm #132412
i On the Salisbury case. It looks like the OPCW is nobbled So we have this which is a dissembling answer to another, albeit what would have been stupid, question. “The precursor of BZ that is referred to in the public statements, commonly known as 3Q, was contained in the control sample prepared by the OPCW Lab in accordance with the existing quality control procedures,” the OPCW director general said. “Otherwise it has nothing to do with the samples collected by the OPCW Team in Salisbury. This chemical was reported back to the OPCW by the two designated labs and the findings are duly reflected in the report.” So the BZ precursor was in the ‘control’ or chromatography calibration sample that was used to detect the BZ in the Skripal blood samples! Well it f**king would be wouldn’t it! https://www.rt.com/news/424475-opcw-swiss-bz-agent-salisbury/April 18, 2018 at 5:41 pm #132413
i On the business insider link The Wikipedia one is ok just looked it up now https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorine_gas_poisoningApril 18, 2018 at 7:54 pm #132414
i The chlorine thing is making the ‘headlines’ elsewhere now? Bit of a row breaking out at the AIJN about washing fruit [and vegetables] with it, or gassing microbes, and whether or not it is legalistically a ‘pesticide’ or a ‘processing aid’. Executive summary of AIJN report on April 12 2018. The Americans are gassing salmonella rich rotten dead chicken shit rich ‘fresh’ chickens with chlorine to reduce the faecal indicator e coli counts. So there is no way of telling. It is a lot cheaper than running a clean processing plant.April 19, 2018 at 10:13 pm #132415
MarcosParticipantDave B wrote:i The chlorine thing is making the ‘headlines’ elsewhere now? Bit of a row breaking out at the AIJN about washing fruit [and vegetables] with it, or gassing microbes, and whether or not it is legalistically a ‘pesticide’ or a ‘processing aid’. Executive summary of AIJN report on April 12 2018. The Americans are gassing salmonella rich rotten dead chicken shit rich ‘fresh’ chickens with chlorine to reduce the faecal indicator e coli counts. So there is no way of telling. It is a lot cheaper than running a clean processing plant.
It is being used to wash the eggs at the industrial farms, but chicken eggs hard shells are porous. Eating organic eggs will not make any difference with the regular egg because both are toxicsApril 19, 2018 at 11:21 pm #132416
I find this story rather ominous in that it once again has official speculation on 'possibles' rather than facts.https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/syria-airstrikes-assad-chemical-attacks-trump-twitter-claims-us-action-a8312126.htmlQuote:US officials told Reuters that currently available intelligence indicated Syria’s stockpiles of chemicals and precursors were believed to be scattered far beyond those three targets. It suggested that some of it was stored in schools and civilian apartment buildings, which one of the officials referred to as “human shields”.
Carte blanche to conduct air attacks on heavily populated areas in the future?April 21, 2018 at 1:53 am #132417
A Patrick Cockburn article that is recommended.https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/syria-assad-uk-government-christian-persecution-isis-foreign-office-a8314616.html
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